From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs Survey 2022 - design Date: Wed, 18 May 2022 18:47:29 +0000 Message-ID: <87czgaada6.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87a6bfa1bf.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28741"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Tassilo Horn , Timothy , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed May 18 20:49:32 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1nrOji-0007H3-Sc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 18 May 2022 20:49:30 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60782 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nrOjh-0001Yu-Va for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 18 May 2022 14:49:29 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:52674) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nrOhq-00005P-QK for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 May 2022 14:47:41 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:44233) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nrOho-0002b8-8U for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 18 May 2022 14:47:34 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A8840240028 for ; Wed, 18 May 2022 20:47:30 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1652899650; bh=29ZIe8DCT6juCtSC60qfDv8TjIRBXk1Y2JUhnWoM0Lg=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=S/gFkSmWAAV22lMWqagh7qk9olZETRr5yrUgRGQ4umNvoBJqH/tT8K0/Hi880SCcK R2II3vlsIR035sVIhful+tBWpG+alPOfQe0pCmUcZgVA+QTqiJgEzYW81zQXrsfJRH Xd97l4y8J3csb7dQHIoZv5liYNS/6jDFohi1+Lhi1pZVXZz/VFoLR0H4xpAMHrGQhz d8i1xF94Va3G7R4GP+DzPE8jWnmwo+Gf/gs4kc7i5FES3vFmxxcNUimIW7lkM731ne tprqwBVdrZkMlLwEuyNb9YOTsoqd5gqOeWbdj2OrT8pP4Xp7Jd1Vob2zw+GZlFVF5X tDWsxwyq84YFg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4L3MRj45xfz6tmN; Wed, 18 May 2022 20:47:29 +0200 (CEST) X-Hashcash: 1:20:220518:monnier@iro.umontreal.ca::dX9BaetXwDGKff1R:00000000000000000000000000000000000004c4D X-Hashcash: 1:20:220518:emacs-devel@gnu.org::pwo03RQHZrDeW1A+:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000003Lf7 X-Hashcash: 1:20:220518:tsdh@gnu.org::6vUFAHteWgQk6F95:000008Vr/ X-Hashcash: 1:20:220518:tecosaur@gmail.com::Uq8ou0AoEgY9S/G/:0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000Aoj4 Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Wed, 18 May 2022 08:43:47 -0400") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:289931 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >> Stefan Monnier writes: >>>> FWIW, I'd select use-package in that question + package.el (for >>>> deletion) and auto-package-update (missing!) for updates without >>>> having to manually go through the *Packages* buffer. >>> Then maybe we should distinguish between the "backend" (package.el >>> here) and the UI layer on top of it (use-package, list-packages, >>> auto-package-update, ...)? >> Yes, that makes sense. And probably the backend isn't even interesting >> (or even known) from a user's POV. > > Those users who "don't care" or "don't know" about the backend are > almost guaranteed to use `package.el`. >From what I hear, a lot of people also use their system's package manager to install packages, that should be mentioned too.