From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Engster Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:34:15 +0200 Message-ID: <87czfa125k.fsf@randomsample> References: <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <83czfh12kp.fsf@gnu.org> <87pmjhghu2.fsf@localhost> <835yl910gp.fsf@gnu.org> <87wndndbhq.fsf@gmail.com> <83bkuzznws.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5mqmkh.fsf@localhost> <83y1y2utnd.fsf@gnu.org> <87r13up587.fsf@localhost> <83o7yyur0l.fsf@gnu.org> <87leu2p3nu.fsf@localhost> <83leu2uewn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r13qv701.fsf@localhost> <87o7yuwhif.fsf@randomsample> <878rpyv0nj.fsf@localhost> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="9523"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.1.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , theophilusx@gmail.com, rms@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Ihor Radchenko Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Jun 15 15:37:06 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o1TCj-0002Ic-JK for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:37:05 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42468 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1TCi-0000h8-MY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:37:04 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54234) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1TAY-0006hM-16 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:34:54 -0400 Original-Received: from [2a03:4000:42:1a1:9400:eeff:feb4:c8a0] (port=36892 helo=zplane.randomsample.de) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o1TAH-0006Q6-SM; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 09:34:49 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=randomsample.de; s=a; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=r1LwfLW/GaT3e5uCzhrmjL4tpLeMkB7GrdDGmxjH7ec=; b=EAvdIAuEAAnvDZTgevAFntPOdp 1aTLZ6spW3WFAVQnCgTJz53mfR670fIIvZcoA0BHrQ8dkDzSgbPZnBb/PWRUoRPhE+7meWP11JHV6 2K8tISYyC2XxbWsyLJ2ZKSdxGLiKvas8qD1A2bvRwut8Q1xCatZ681NjZLcLLdS9gP7R2oTVdcynW k22E07V2jlImcXNfMxuLsFJnUHBsjTpEBciXTrHU1uUpfweL1lo8D6PuNAY9YQrnhV+jm050iTxQa 6hKcR+LLdAuWAcMrqZwkl0aF9GeFfpVnZtEN4mH0hUckEt6ZpskXKLx5OpilGk8ZwnD0a3zIHjOMo Jq5z5Q/w==; Original-Received: from ip5f5abad6.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de ([95.90.186.214] helo=void) by zplane.randomsample.de with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1o1TA1-003xvb-Cg; Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:34:17 +0200 In-Reply-To: <878rpyv0nj.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Wed, 15 Jun 2022 15:36:16 +0800") X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a03:4000:42:1a1:9400:eeff:feb4:c8a0 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a03:4000:42:1a1:9400:eeff:feb4:c8a0; envelope-from=deng@randomsample.de; helo=zplane.randomsample.de X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_TEMPERROR=0.01 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291214 Archived-At: > On my system, using Emacs 28 and latest Org, exporting org-manual + > org-guide takes 18.8 sec. This time includes genering the .texi files > and running texinfo. From that 18.8 sec, texinfo takes 3.4 sec to run. On my system, generating org.texi from org.org takes 21s, makeinfo org.texi takes 2.7s. But it's nice to see that it has become much faster compared to 2014. > org export takes: 15.4 sec, which is 4.5 x texinfo time. > Considering that Org export is more sofisticated compared to texinfo and > that Org export is written in Elisp, I see this performance as > acceptable for a documentation system. Why does the implementation language matter whether a documentation system is acceptable? And while sophisticated, Org is actually still missing features (like a proper index) to be a suitable replacement. Org is about 1/16th of the whole Emacs documentation, so we're looking at over 5min if everything was written in Org, give or take. People were already up in arms when the switch from Texinfo v4 to v5 was done (which switched to a Perl implementation). When documentation generation takes a long time, writing it becomes more painful, as you cannot quickly check the resulting output. And I think you underestimate how important a quick build process is. Apart from developer annoyance, you need less resources for CI, for instance. -David