From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: [NonGNU ELPA] New package: Denote-Refs Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2022 00:05:01 +0000 Message-ID: <87cz8dei4y.fsf@posteo.net> References: <87a63jl5i2.fsf@disroot.org> <87ili75o0p.fsf@posteo.net> <87a63jp92j.fsf@disroot.org> <878rj35hh0.fsf@posteo.net> <874jtr5cg4.fsf@posteo.net> <878rj2f2co.fsf@posteo.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="35518"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: Akib Azmain Turja , Emacs Developer List To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Dec 21 01:05:34 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1p7mc1-00091N-Sq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2022 01:05:33 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p7mbf-000285-UX; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:05:11 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p7mbb-00027G-DQ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:05:08 -0500 Original-Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p7mbY-00009y-SC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 20 Dec 2022 19:05:06 -0500 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E30B2240101 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2022 01:05:02 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671581102; bh=CkEOHRnuBaOfaUcgb82K90stAbFRvcEvcmO4OhkjuLY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=BE1ehHFujHJtDlC13U3lsBrBRvcngKZ/rOV4RJ28uVtHRLKSyg8LTImrGGbHDcshz gyQnNVMFEcmxa1hvkUdtsEKr5wRuCkxqtNBqfhumYOI+U79mUqhSyzVKRa8MjyBIeM 8MAnWC8x6+PupmuB8aHntdX5hE1dDIHFlJuiXp2QvjSf4vRSxw/znOTTG+uf7TaSad AiC+HJyPnDFoFNQkbORzT19qnoDhrfFZguwB8xwD692tlqRrJwcapJjFjOMEaGK9yy uQPGYmrzOdLQKyOeA7VR8OGNCKTBlBxS3p3ugyyVjHciraGfPZCqD7j0d/ApsEeSHw XMd6xgSilVlSQ== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NcDGP6cJqz9rxD; Wed, 21 Dec 2022 01:05:01 +0100 (CET) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Tue, 20 Dec 2022 17:39:18 +0000") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:301715 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> While I understand why () doesn't need to be quoted -- in the sense that >> the reader sees no difference between the empty list literal and the >> empty list notation -- I just don't like the inconsistency between the >> requirement to quote a non-empty list if I want to inhibit evaluation, >> while this is not the case for an empty list. >>=20 >> '(1 2 3) has to be quoted, >> '(1 2) has to be quoted, >> '(1) has to be quoted, but >> '() suddenly doesn't? >> >> If it weren't necessary, I'd consider the `eq`ality >> of '(), () and nil this an implementation detail. > > (list 1) and '(1) are (construct) conses. > () isn't a cons.=20=20 > > Not just an implementation detail - different > critters - as different as nullary constructor > `zero' and unary constructor `successor'. >> Another point is that in the case of deftheme, the () might look like a >> empty parameter list, sort of like how (defun foo () ...) might look >> like. By explicitly quoting the list, we "clarify" that this is not the >> same kind of thing. > > Can't speak to this; dunno what () you mean. This one: (defun foo (bar) baz) ^ or in the case of a nullary function: (defun foo () baz) ^ > But `deftheme' is a macro. Any understanding > of any of its parts has to come from the doc > string (or code). A part (including ()) of a > macro call could mean anything, depending on > the macro definition. I'll be honest, I have never used the MEMBERS parameter of `defgroup' (I assume you meant that), but it appears it is passed without quotation: (macroexpand-1 '(defgroup foo bar "This is a group")) =3D> (custom-declare-group 'foo bar "This is a group") That means that this list is not just a part of the "syntax structure", as it is with `defun', but an actual value. > Anyway, I appreciate your communicating the > reasons behind your preference. There's no > right or wrong when it comes to des go=C3=BBts et > des couleurs. Thx. Sure, that is why I just suggested that Akib think about it, but if it is his style to prefer nil over () or '(), then that is fine as well.