From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Android port of Emacs Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2023 09:13:42 +0800 Message-ID: <87cz1r541l.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <121acd3282a64abf77d6@heytings.org> <87y1khd2jb.fsf@yahoo.com> <83f64da10bfab98a840a@heytings.org> <87edm9b6mx.fsf@yahoo.com> <83f64da10b4dd80c3af1@heytings.org> <87zg4w70jb.fsf@yahoo.com> <83a5wv8lwb.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="11130"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Cc: gregory@heytings.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jun 20 03:14:42 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qBPxC-0002jH-7L for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 03:14:42 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBPwV-0007Z5-UI; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 21:13:59 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBPwU-0007Yc-U6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 21:13:58 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic311-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.188.206]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qBPwT-0006t6-84 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 19 Jun 2023 21:13:58 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1687223635; bh=qgkrO2IkIcAB6h+44Sy4UDFWctkUJES30bIY4U3ZDlY=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=a3fEnSdZEwzzn7NfzDEDMqXkOnlHMAjI2LuDjdCV0i0sd9+9HGTVDqkQy0gGv4hFt2WTUnJSyjjGpUJmiOCE8ry6PA3FM5TUvaH0lPchCFjHLoBB0L3cNGll4kdLuiZLzLXTOxTKFNF0G6KGCG7340Yo08WBH6neJTVelITgoJfC+FrykdmhV5f5uaKhN4FCkxR6ln5wHZPlciQdEWiX8KqOBBDGX4hDt3qOaON29LXWE0NrpK0BtQMRtu32rPeBs+o3urrMqRZZhSn9kDbRC2rtkWiuDEs08hjiOa45NyV82Yd4nUAGQKlG11B4RlyIBYKcrGj1S7bczvnLW994Vw== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1687223635; bh=dhBUVF9HqfCixfiluVnYHSzEpJj/rbXB1aSKo6/ZCpZ=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=sk+G7NEIGIkQbCxKQ1ZUnUwt9TD7So5L5pa9dfEBmgR6Tbasgime5NXR5DhlC4BjEx1gd2U+VbLE7j2gShOMW8M9nnNnE1vlFvPQwcTDEdzevzdA/3ikfkWiqBQFNmGVuohmzBdE8Dk+dSNYuD/u8ineVfuXz88ZzgevJYnyFf0M7EIHYByrCHxmCy+vaQFuftHaiAGoRqgkFDwK2iukCZiOsrPJ2tUE13z7wmIvgXMGnK3coq2OL1hvbq35ikIcE6ffvXHeI5Qrcx1qIu5Y9N7L8zgQF9PWseBsTFyQpvXl01JjRw3P9oWtS3Ok/t8KXCQ0e1tHpeeX9f2+OU1Geg== X-YMail-OSG: OUZWXr8VM1manjLDcre_6HWf_7zjIXjLis7_eJ6dYVCZGa1AGJV.JtzupdiH9tb FMYebS3KwhhVgb8gz8dyadU6kplgp4mjlR8iqD.9fHbtQdf.ymScf8yxsd_0Z.PuDBAgFzIggdQI 26CkU9iJBGa09lNUZTGnuYhJNWarCmqmnhFd.wmJGTJQI0LwTdulSaRNPcfXs7agK5jDuT30BVb0 VP56eE.o_hgRnd.Wp6GPxW8pi7oJchgfS_dnN00OlL4LUr1ahoFYbM5cxV3U.RSyBggFBAItQKNa TAa0_EaKzEQFRUjN4_lVGr72x1.nV10RYgZpmFru0jzB_2ZNTtxANL74xyLE0SRQ6dUT.OVjS8uz Mme0Q51EtLsUcv0i_t_G6wS482V5cFnszNrFZQWnIIMSFgPlnLKkjDsZwvRPKkIYN8_IVd8q1MHf TGaUzxeiyyMdMEMZcsYRj2fcRdsqvNP3J24nud4Nwxnaf8RDR9rS_23SFA.USEuA8czjpovDLCAg TlYcdUn9hULl5l4173CYovcjqmoewsMZoWV46umVN8yj.cNfp1ETrD4nK53oo5A8leRWUrvBfPtQ JwRCYycofNfo8U7ERsl0pzCx55ED3zBe8FVqfv0kogszPCUrxbFBddxSFOFuF0iNbFAUnSemx4BY hw7ht3VItzQ4p5UyC6Kvb5RlsDdjduyWhEaTXlFJecv1Geh7UhoxlJ6TNwGuD1wqVv3O_vgzoCW_ kAS7uVL.a30MjMLyjXxJa_ZdG4k9P3YCoZlmkmvfmfCyCNGweQVJ4jO4gSsMrqu3g6z1HLeO07wh JXrBKP3c8MTMxAZIgVEYx.C8_el9HuZnyPU9L9mMOK X-Sonic-MF: X-Sonic-ID: 30725a88-a9fa-4970-b821-11f0d15bbb4b Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic311.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:13:55 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--production-sg3-748897c457-524hn (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID a7339a74f9468e6c8cd36aac657af70c; Tue, 20 Jun 2023 01:13:48 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <83a5wv8lwb.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 19 Jun 2023 19:19:48 +0300") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.21557 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.206; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic311-25.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:307066 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Is this going to be your style in discussing issues pertaining to the > Android port? If so, I will decide not to land it right here and now. > Because it's extremely likely that most people who will ask or post > opinions or comment on the Android support will not have "a good > understanding of the code within the feature/android branch", and so > this unkind response could be a preview of what we are in for. And > that is unacceptable, from my POV. No, it's not -- the problem is that that research leaves much to be desired: he is trying to debate technical details of the Android port from the POV of an Android user, without possessing an understanding of both the technical and user-interface issues involved. Such debate is not constructive, especially when Termux (the terminal emulator) is regularly being conflated with the Termux X server. > So please in the future make a point of respecting others who speak > about this more than the above indicates. OK. > Gregory may or may not know as much as you do about this, but he > definitely invested some effort into researching the issues, and > should be commended for that, not pounced upon. Then let me explain my position again: on touch-screen devices with small screens, using PC input methods through an X server becomes an exercise in frustration. With the Android file-system APIs, many files cannot be accessed through the Unix VFS alone. On those devices, the mouse pointer emulation provided by X is difficult to use, as it relies on different series of counterintuitive gestures, and various different input ``modes''. Finally, various minor UI features, such as yanking media, displaying dialog boxes while in the background or iconified, automatically displaying the OSK when required, are not possible inside an X server running on Android. I experienced these problems with Termux first-hand, and they motivated me to start writing a new port. So far, nothing that was said in this thread refutes that. And hopefully, you can understand why I get extremely frustrated when the nature of those problems is called into question, especially in the face of positive feedback by many users. Thanks.