* Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? @ 2024-06-25 21:37 Jeremy Bryant via Emacs development discussions. 2024-06-27 9:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Bryant via Emacs development discussions. @ 2024-06-25 21:37 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Oleh Krehel, Emacs Devel Ace-window is a quick way to switch windows, optionally using the home key row. It has a high rating of 89% in ELPA https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ I have found it useful and also stable - It doesn't appear to undergo major changes or need much ongoing maintenance. Could it be a candidate for absorption into Emacs core? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-25 21:37 Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? Jeremy Bryant via Emacs development discussions. @ 2024-06-27 9:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 2024-06-29 22:10 ` Jeremy Bryant 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-06-27 9:49 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: ohwoeowho, emacs-devel > Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:37:58 +0100 > From: Jeremy Bryant via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > > > Ace-window is a quick way to switch windows, optionally using the home > key row. > > It has a high rating of 89% in ELPA > https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ > > I have found it useful and also stable - It doesn't appear to undergo > major changes or need much ongoing maintenance. > > Could it be a candidate for absorption into Emacs core? It could be, but why is it a problem to leave it on ELPA? ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-27 9:49 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-06-29 22:10 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-06-30 0:18 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-06-30 5:00 ` Eli Zaretskii 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-06-29 22:10 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:37:58 +0100 >> From: Jeremy Bryant via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org> >> >> >> Ace-window is a quick way to switch windows, optionally using the home >> key row. >> >> It has a high rating of 89% in ELPA >> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ >> >> I have found it useful and also stable - It doesn't appear to undergo >> major changes or need much ongoing maintenance. >> >> Could it be a candidate for absorption into Emacs core? > > It could be, but why is it a problem to leave it on ELPA? There are deployment scenarios where users can only use the Emacs provided in the distro, with no internet access for policy or security reasons. In particular, that means only built-in packages, without access to the internet. As I personally use ace-window, I found it lacking in that scenario. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-29 22:10 ` Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-06-30 0:18 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-06-30 0:35 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-06-30 5:00 ` Eli Zaretskii 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2024-06-30 0:18 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Jeremy Bryant <jb@jeremybryant.net> writes: > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > >>> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:37:58 +0100 >>> From: Jeremy Bryant via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org> >>> >>> >>> Ace-window is a quick way to switch windows, optionally using the home >>> key row. >>> >>> It has a high rating of 89% in ELPA >>> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ >>> >>> I have found it useful and also stable - It doesn't appear to undergo >>> major changes or need much ongoing maintenance. >>> >>> Could it be a candidate for absorption into Emacs core? >> >> It could be, but why is it a problem to leave it on ELPA? > > There are deployment scenarios where users can only use the Emacs > provided in the distro, with no internet access for policy or security reasons. > In particular, that means only built-in packages, without access to the internet. > > As I personally use ace-window, I found it lacking in that scenario. Given that we already have windmove, would the addition of ace-window really change that much? -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-30 0:18 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2024-06-30 0:35 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-07-01 19:04 ` Jeremy Bryant 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2024-06-30 0:35 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic, Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: > Given that we already have windmove, would the addition of ace-window > really change that much? The same argument could be used for many packages that we have in core. Who needs Gnus when you have rmail, and so on. The packages do basically the same thing, but in very different ways. I don't use ace-window myself, but note that it is the 28th most popular package on MELPA with 1,773,799 downloads, only slightly behind 'which-key' in popularity that we just added to core. See: https://melpa.org/#/?sort=downloads&asc=false Until we figure out how to bundle GNU ELPA packages, something that has seen little progress in a long time, I think there is a case to be made for adding some of the more popular packages to core. ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-30 0:35 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2024-07-01 19:04 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-07-01 19:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 0 siblings, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-07-01 19:04 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Stefan Kangas; +Cc: Philip Kaludercic, Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: > >> Given that we already have windmove, would the addition of ace-window >> really change that much? > > The same argument could be used for many packages that we have in core. > Who needs Gnus when you have rmail, and so on. The packages do > basically the same thing, but in very different ways. > > I don't use ace-window myself, but note that it is the 28th most popular > package on MELPA with 1,773,799 downloads, only slightly behind > 'which-key' in popularity that we just added to core. > > See: https://melpa.org/#/?sort=downloads&asc=false > > Until we figure out how to bundle GNU ELPA packages, something that has > seen little progress in a long time, I think there is a case to be made > for adding some of the more popular packages to core. FWIW, my personal reason for using ace-window is due to helping with RSI. I find that the facility to navigate windows by staying on the home row reduces the travel distance on the keyboard. I recognise that this may not be as essential for other users, and offer these remarks just for wider understanding. From ace-window.el: ;; By default, ace-window uses numbers for window labels so the window ;; labeling is intuitively ordered. But if you prefer to type keys on ;; your home row for quicker access, use this setting: ;; ;; (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) I've adapted it to Dvorak layout as: (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-07-01 19:04 ` Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-07-01 19:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-07-01 22:21 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-07-02 22:31 ` Jeremy Bryant 0 siblings, 2 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Philip Kaludercic @ 2024-07-01 19:17 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: Stefan Kangas, Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Jeremy Bryant <jb@jeremybryant.net> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > >> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: >> >>> Given that we already have windmove, would the addition of ace-window >>> really change that much? >> >> The same argument could be used for many packages that we have in core. >> Who needs Gnus when you have rmail, and so on. The packages do >> basically the same thing, but in very different ways. That is fair IMO, because the ways /are/ very different. I just wanted to clarify, if the method employed by ace-window is different enough to be interesting as an alternative to windmove. >> I don't use ace-window myself, but note that it is the 28th most popular >> package on MELPA with 1,773,799 downloads, only slightly behind >> 'which-key' in popularity that we just added to core. >> >> See: https://melpa.org/#/?sort=downloads&asc=false Popularity on MELPA correlates with age, especially since AFAIU they count every upgrade as a download, so I am always hesitant to deduce too much from data like these, especially when the popularity of a package might be due to a missing feature in the core, that has since been added or improved on. >> Until we figure out how to bundle GNU ELPA packages, something that has >> seen little progress in a long time, I think there is a case to be made >> for adding some of the more popular packages to core. > > FWIW, my personal reason for using ace-window is due to helping with > RSI. I find that the facility to navigate windows by staying on the > home row reduces the travel distance on the keyboard. > > I recognise that this may not be as essential for other users, and offer > these remarks just for wider understanding. My question is what your experience with windmove has been, and what advantage ace-window has over windmove. E.g. my main configuration for windmove is (setopt windmove-default-keybindings '(nil . nil)) that binds window switching directly to the arrow keys. I don't know of anyone else who does this (and I know of a few colleges who got annoyed at me for doing this), but I think it is neat. What I am trying to say is that there might be a windmove configuration that would serve you just as well, but you just haven't found it yet. In that case, we need to document the features better, instead of going through the process of adding more packages -- as we have seen, that can take a while. > From ace-window.el: > ;; By default, ace-window uses numbers for window labels so the window > ;; labeling is intuitively ordered. But if you prefer to type keys on > ;; your home row for quicker access, use this setting: > ;; > ;; (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) > > > I've adapted it to Dvorak layout as: > (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) -- Philip Kaludercic on peregrine ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-07-01 19:17 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2024-07-01 22:21 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-07-02 22:31 ` Jeremy Bryant 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Stefan Kangas @ 2024-07-01 22:21 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic, Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: > Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: > >> I don't use ace-window myself, but note that it is the 28th most popular >> package on MELPA with 1,773,799 downloads, only slightly behind >> 'which-key' in popularity that we just added to core. >> >> See: https://melpa.org/#/?sort=downloads&asc=false > > Popularity on MELPA correlates with age, especially since AFAIU they > count every upgrade as a download, so I am always hesitant to deduce too > much from data like these, especially when the popularity of a package > might be due to a missing feature in the core, that has since been added > or improved on. All valid points, of course. These statistics are far from perfect. We also have users that download from GNU ELPA, directly from the repository, etc. At the same time, not all old packages reach such a high number of downloads on MELPA -- some amount of popularity _is_ required. As one data point, one of my own packages is several years older than ace-window, yet has a measly 3,000 downloads. :-) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-07-01 19:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-07-01 22:21 ` Stefan Kangas @ 2024-07-02 22:31 ` Jeremy Bryant 1 sibling, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-07-02 22:31 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Philip Kaludercic; +Cc: Stefan Kangas, Eli Zaretskii, ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: > Jeremy Bryant <jb@jeremybryant.net> writes: > >> Stefan Kangas <stefankangas@gmail.com> writes: >> >>> Philip Kaludercic <philipk@posteo.net> writes: >>> >>>> Given that we already have windmove, would the addition of ace-window >>>> really change that much? >>> >>> The same argument could be used for many packages that we have in core. >>> Who needs Gnus when you have rmail, and so on. The packages do >>> basically the same thing, but in very different ways. > > That is fair IMO, because the ways /are/ very different. I just wanted > to clarify, if the method employed by ace-window is different enough to > be interesting as an alternative to windmove. >> FWIW, my personal reason for using ace-window is due to helping with >> RSI. I find that the facility to navigate windows by staying on the >> home row reduces the travel distance on the keyboard. >> >> I recognise that this may not be as essential for other users, and offer >> these remarks just for wider understanding. > > My question is what your experience with windmove has been, and what > advantage ace-window has over windmove. E.g. my main configuration > for Happy to answer your question: I used windmove before I started using ace-window, I concur that it is a useful and intuitive package, and indeed more understandable. I also like the fact that ace-window naturally scales up; in the case of 2 windows, M-x ace-window (bound to your key of choice), reduces to simply the equivalent of M-x other-window. For N>=3 windows, you get the interface explained before. > windmove is > > (setopt windmove-default-keybindings '(nil . nil)) > > that binds window switching directly to the arrow keys. I don't know of > anyone else who does this (and I know of a few colleges who got annoyed > at me for doing this), but I think it is neat. What I am trying to say I agree it's neat. But in my personal use case, as explained, I wish to stay on the home row, so I almost don't use the arrows for anything. > is that there might be a windmove configuration that would serve you > just as well, but you just haven't found it yet. In that case, we need Yes, it could well be true that there is a another interesting configuration. > to document the features better, instead of going through the process of > adding more packages -- as we have seen, that can take a while. Yes, I accept the bar to adding new packages to Emacs is high > >> From ace-window.el: >> ;; By default, ace-window uses numbers for window labels so the window >> ;; labeling is intuitively ordered. But if you prefer to type keys on >> ;; your home row for quicker access, use this setting: >> ;; >> ;; (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) >> >> >> I've adapted it to Dvorak layout as: >> (setq aw-keys '(?a ?s ?d ?f ?g ?h ?j ?k ?l)) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-29 22:10 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-06-30 0:18 ` Philip Kaludercic @ 2024-06-30 5:00 ` Eli Zaretskii 2024-07-01 19:07 ` Jeremy Bryant 1 sibling, 1 reply; 11+ messages in thread From: Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-06-30 5:00 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Jeremy Bryant; +Cc: ohwoeowho, emacs-devel > From: Jeremy Bryant <jb@jeremybryant.net> > Cc: ohwoeowho@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org > Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2024 23:10:33 +0100 > > Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: > > >> Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 22:37:58 +0100 > >> From: Jeremy Bryant via "Emacs development discussions." <emacs-devel@gnu.org> > >> > >> > >> Ace-window is a quick way to switch windows, optionally using the home > >> key row. > >> > >> It has a high rating of 89% in ELPA > >> https://elpa.gnu.org/packages/ > >> > >> I have found it useful and also stable - It doesn't appear to undergo > >> major changes or need much ongoing maintenance. > >> > >> Could it be a candidate for absorption into Emacs core? > > > > It could be, but why is it a problem to leave it on ELPA? > > There are deployment scenarios where users can only use the Emacs > provided in the distro, with no internet access for policy or security reasons. > In particular, that means only built-in packages, without access to the internet. > > As I personally use ace-window, I found it lacking in that scenario. That argument can be applied to any ELPA package, can't it? AFAIU, the lack of Internet access situation is no longer important enough to warrant addition of packages to core. (FTR, I need to work without Internet access quite a lot, so I'm very much familiar with this situation and its problems.) ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
* Re: Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? 2024-06-30 5:00 ` Eli Zaretskii @ 2024-07-01 19:07 ` Jeremy Bryant 0 siblings, 0 replies; 11+ messages in thread From: Jeremy Bryant @ 2024-07-01 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Eli Zaretskii; +Cc: ohwoeowho, emacs-devel Eli Zaretskii <eliz@gnu.org> writes: >> > It could be, but why is it a problem to leave it on ELPA? >> >> There are deployment scenarios where users can only use the Emacs >> provided in the distro, with no internet access for policy or security reasons. >> In particular, that means only built-in packages, without access to the internet. >> >> As I personally use ace-window, I found it lacking in that scenario. > > That argument can be applied to any ELPA package, can't it? > > AFAIU, the lack of Internet access situation is no longer important > enough to warrant addition of packages to core. OK, I accept that > > (FTR, I need to work without Internet access quite a lot, so I'm > very much familiar with this situation and its problems.) Good to hear ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 11+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2024-07-02 22:31 UTC | newest] Thread overview: 11+ messages (download: mbox.gz follow: Atom feed -- links below jump to the message on this page -- 2024-06-25 21:37 Suggestion: Ace-window in Emacs core for switching windows? Jeremy Bryant via Emacs development discussions. 2024-06-27 9:49 ` Eli Zaretskii 2024-06-29 22:10 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-06-30 0:18 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-06-30 0:35 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-07-01 19:04 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-07-01 19:17 ` Philip Kaludercic 2024-07-01 22:21 ` Stefan Kangas 2024-07-02 22:31 ` Jeremy Bryant 2024-06-30 5:00 ` Eli Zaretskii 2024-07-01 19:07 ` Jeremy Bryant
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox; as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).