From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bruce Stephens Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Permission to use portions of the recent GNU Emacs Manual Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 17:44:31 +0000 Message-ID: <87brcy9jpc.fsf@cenderis.demon.co.uk> References: <878y84t52h.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org> <01c4e091$Blat.v2.2.2$b6626d00@zahav.net.il> <847aaaf20412122248663630aa@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: deer.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: sea.gmane.org 1102961590 2282 80.91.229.6 (13 Dec 2004 18:13:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:13:10 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Mon Dec 13 19:12:50 2004 Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([199.184.165.135] ident=ident-user) by deer.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1Cdugk-0005FR-00 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:12:50 +0100 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDI4rk7027785; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:04:53 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDI0k8j027133 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:46 -0500 Original-Received: (from xemacweb@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBDI0kRi027132 for xemacs-beta-mailman@xemacs.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:46 -0500 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (ident-user@localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDI0je0027121 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:45 -0500 Original-Received: (from mailnull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11/Submit) id iBDI0jCZ027119 for xemacweb@tux.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:45 -0500 Original-Received: from main.gmane.org (main.gmane.org [80.91.229.2]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id iBDI0i2S027113 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:00:45 -0500 Original-Received: from root by main.gmane.org with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1CduV1-0000WG-00 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:00:44 +0100 Original-Received: from cenderis.demon.co.uk ([62.49.17.254]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:00:43 +0100 Original-Received: from bruce+usenet by cenderis.demon.co.uk with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 19:00:43 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-To: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org Original-Lines: 31 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@sea.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: cenderis.demon.co.uk User-Agent: Gnus/5.1002 (Gnus v5.10.2) Emacs/21.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:RbdIvw5dlpHuin6YmwEuaSP7rZg= X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV 0.80/622/Wed Dec 8 08:36:53 2004 clamav-milter version 0.80j on gwyn.tux.org X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-Virus-Status: Clean X-XEmacs-List: beta X-BeenThere: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: XEmacs Beta Testers List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Errors-To: xemacs-beta-bounces@xemacs.org Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.beta:17445 gmane.emacs.devel:31072 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:31072 David Kastrup writes: [...] > Because it still is impossible to move GPLed material into a manual > that is supposed to be dual-licenced under the GPL and the GFDL, for > anyone except the copyright holder on the GPLed software? As far as I can tell the XEmacs people aren't asking for GNU GPL; the XEmacs manual is distributed under conditions which look incompatible with the GNU GPL. Indeed, I just compared the text in the current xemacs.texi with what's in emacs.texi version 1.10 (August 2000, just before the change described as "Update for GFDL. Not yet checked by rms."), and they look very nearly the same (the only difference is that in emacs.texi translations of the GNU Manifesto and similar sections have to be approved by "the Free Software Foundation", but xemacs.texi says "the author"). So presumably in 2000 the FSF chose to change the license, and the XEmacs people didn't follow, either because they didn't like the GFDL or because they felt they couldn't (changing licences is obviously easier if one entity owns the copyright). It seems a shame. Not as embarrassing as Debian moving all GFDL documentation to non-free (which hasn't happened yet, but seems not unlikely), but still disappointing, IMHO.