From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Improving X selection? Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2008 03:01:03 +0900 Message-ID: <87bq6sir34.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <8e24944a0802011115h77423fd1p2eae15a1e46bca1a@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802011617k66c49283id9478dc3d5168bdf@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802030338i1ce3397yba581ffedbe2f118@mail.gmail.com> <47A5B737.8000804@swipnet.se> <8e24944a0802030512t77c4ca20s6d059df50295ebd2@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802041302n45064c4fm2ac428ceda204254@mail.gmail.com> <47A80B57.3050402@swipnet.se> <8e24944a0802061957re4baf7cr9560fa3496be56b4@mail.gmail.com> <8e24944a0802070815n18dea273j5c3962235d91ca8e@mail.gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1202406900 9777 80.91.229.12 (7 Feb 2008 17:55:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2008 17:55:00 +0000 (UTC) Cc: "Horsley, Tom" , "Jan D." , emacs-devel@gnu.org, Stefan Monnier , rms@gnu.org To: "David De La Harpe Golden" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Feb 07 18:55:20 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JNAxw-0003c0-IS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 18:55:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JNAxU-00016m-0R for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:54:48 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JNAxQ-00015t-Co for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:54:44 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JNAxO-00013p-Ti for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:54:43 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JNAxO-00013c-L4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:54:42 -0500 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JNAxK-0001ba-Ig; Thu, 07 Feb 2008 12:54:39 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CEA1535B3; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 02:54:36 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 1B4571A29E5; Fri, 8 Feb 2008 03:01:04 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <8e24944a0802070815n18dea273j5c3962235d91ca8e@mail.gmail.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" (+CVS-20071205) XEmacs Lucid X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:88441 Archived-At: David De La Harpe Golden writes: > Highlight: > > recent-X11-style behaviour, propagate the active region to the X11 primary, > _without_ affecting clipboard or kill-ring. Er, if "recent ... behavior" is the rationale for "propagate ... kill-ring", your time-scale is geological. The current behavior of Emacs (and XEmacs) was generally decided ages ago, deliberately flouting the conventions of X11 (I believe these are recommended but not mandated by the ICCCM), which haven't changed since then AFAICT. My understanding is that this behavior was hotly debated at that time, and deliberately chosen. I see no reason why users should not get the behavior you've implemented if they want it (I think it better corresponds to my personal preferences, for one thing ;-), but (1) The defaults should not change without substantial experimentation. (I believe you've taken care about that already, but it deserves emphasis.) (2) I expect it will be important to uptake that any behavior be substantially mimicked on non-X platforms if at all possible. The (admittedly approximate) constancy of semantics of mouse gestures across platforms is something that many of our users find very important (and we're talking a decade of experience in XEmacs, dunno how long Emacs has been usable on Windows or if Emacs has many users who swing both ways ... I know the maintainer doesn't!). > lightins: Yuck. Sounds like occupying a government office as a demonstration against opaque politics. Please spell out your intended expansion, and let the users choose the abbreviation. > recent-X11-style behaviour, middle-button insert of X11 primary, > _without_ affecting clipboard or kill-ring. How does middle-button *affect* clipboard and/or kill-ring? Do you mean something like "consult"?