From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Bastien Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: position on changing defaults? Date: Thu, 06 Mar 2008 01:18:41 +0000 Message-ID: <87bq5s3b0u.fsf@bzg.ath.cx> References: <200803050637.m256bXL3008361@sallyv1.ics.uci.edu> <87hcfkdhqk.fsf@stupidchicken.com> <87pru8enjx.fsf@kfs-lx.rd.rdm> <47CF4247.6050702@gmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1204766386 13634 80.91.229.12 (6 Mar 2008 01:19:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2008 01:19:46 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Chong Yidong , emacs-devel@gnu.org, "Kim F. Storm" To: "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Mar 06 02:20:12 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JX4mF-0002VB-2S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:20:07 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JX4lh-00083H-GF for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:19:33 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JX4lc-00081Z-Lj for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:19:28 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JX4la-0007yp-De for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:19:27 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JX4la-0007yd-82 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:19:26 -0500 Original-Received: from fk-out-0910.google.com ([209.85.128.187]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JX4lZ-0001ug-Sk for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:19:26 -0500 Original-Received: by fk-out-0910.google.com with SMTP id 26so1738690fkx.10 for ; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:19:25 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:received:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; bh=hwsqbt+JxqaI3XCa+t/jYGdCaOu8x4joU3BcsqjQCUs=; b=L9J4y6QegvvGI75QURLl/ptuLKrX2wj3io21bn+Dg9shofioGpuUIFDjQ+ZVXudAjrEUd2GTzK9QIRoh1aOeUzIGkyJc4KD1WPutFTD1/wIJCdh4db8GyVDatGbU3RsYWoVmITSNYJg8AD6bMMnWqyeUx/DHG8/6/7maESwKhpA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlemail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version:content-type:sender; b=NzofXLFZC5x+C6yUSJ+gec6+6A1LRZ8S4BaD6oB0yI7yvpkxgivXY/nPkSPoL5iWmIRg+hPwxSk3wBVSeedfyuagESMk/N8/KukodFG4rF5ByF4dIT/dqo5ssh7Yt8pF3I7OBQebTSCTIHFAnAobKu7QbUCseGEFxsSa6eSGsqI= Original-Received: by 10.82.188.15 with SMTP id l15mr10439265buf.15.1204766364721; Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:19:24 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from bzg.ath.cx ( [81.99.213.34]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id c24sm3144514ika.10.2008.03.05.17.19.06 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:19:23 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by bzg.ath.cx (Postfix, from userid 1000) id B6EFE1575BD; Thu, 6 Mar 2008 01:18:41 +0000 (GMT) In-Reply-To: <47CF4247.6050702@gmail.com> (Lennart Borgman's message of "Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:00:55 +0100") User-Agent: Gnus/5.110007 (No Gnus v0.7) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:91459 Archived-At: "Lennart Borgman (gmail)" writes: > Kim F. Storm wrote: >> Or use cua-selection-mode - to get all the benefits it provides! > > I really agree. Beside what Kim mentioned I think it is important to > keep the default Emacs key usage as close to those in other applications > as possible (without breaking Emacs use of C-x etc of course) and then > cua-selection-mode is the natural choice. I don't buy the argument "keep it close to other applications". It's not that I don't buy it *at all*, it's just that I'm a bit worried people think of this argument as being straightforward. If a software adopts a widely used convention, it is first a benefit for the convention itself: it extends its realm. Then it might be a benefit for the software himself in two very differents ways: if it helps making the sofware more popular, or if it improves it. I'm not arguing that a new feature feature should always improve the software, I'm just saying that making the software more "conventional" is barely sufficient for switching to a new feature... My 2 cents, -- Bastien