From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tassilo Horn Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: C-n and C-a Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:10:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87bptqywpq.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1233241866 27257 80.91.229.12 (29 Jan 2009 15:11:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2009 15:11:06 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: rms@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Jan 29 16:12:19 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1LSYYn-0004I7-Nh for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:12:06 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:58418 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LSYXU-0002FE-TZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:10:45 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LSYXN-0002EN-WA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:10:38 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LSYXI-0002DK-Ie for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:10:37 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=34890 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LSYXI-0002DH-DY for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:10:32 -0500 Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([141.26.64.15]:27785) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LSYXG-0007Nd-78; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 10:10:30 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3806A789AE06; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:10:29 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from deliver.uni-koblenz.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (deliver.uni-koblenz.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 13969-04; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:10:28 +0100 (CET) X-CHKRCPT: Envelopesender vrfy tassilo@member.fsf.org Original-Received: from thinkpad.tsdh.de (unknown [141.26.67.2]) by deliver.uni-koblenz.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 169CD78973E5; Thu, 29 Jan 2009 16:10:25 +0100 (CET) Mail-Copies-To: never Mail-Followup-To: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org In-Reply-To: (Richard M. Stallman's message of "Thu, 29 Jan 2009 09:32:12 -0500") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.0.60 (gnu/linux) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at uni-koblenz.de X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:108360 Archived-At: Richard M Stallman writes: Hi Richard, > The new definitions of C-n and C-p seem to work reasonably > conveniently with the very long lines that non-Emacs-users often > write. However, it is very counterintuitive that C-a and C-e have not > been changed in the same way. I mentioned this inconsistencies before in <874p55z20j.fsf@thinkpad.tsdh.de>. I was told that the current behavior was due to a consensus. But still I don't like it, so I switch on `visual-line-mode' where everything operates consistently on screen lines. IMHO without `visual-line-mode' everything should work on real lines, with it turned on everything should work on screen lines (as it does right now). This half screen half real line behavior is somewhat confusing. > I think they too should be changed to operate on screen lines; > that's a necessary part of the change that was already made. You can have this by turning on `visual-line-mode'. > If C-a and C-e are changed this way, we would want some way to go to > the beginning and end of the real line. Here are some ideas: > > * Make C-u C-a and C-u C-e do this. I suspect nobody uses > those combinations with their current meanings. Yes, that would be ok. A bit more convenient would be to type `C-a' twice, which would toggle between screen and real line beginning. > * Make M-{ and M-} treat each line as a paragraph. That would be the > right thing for them to do in such text. This would require either a > minor mode or detecting long-line text heuristically. I wouldn't like that, because it would require that texts one writes have to obey the convention that each paragraph has to be on one line. Especially when working with others this cannot be enforced while an empty line to mark paragraphs in pretty standard. Bye, Tassilo