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From: Miles Bader <miles@gnu.org>
To: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: C-d deleting region considered harmful
Date: Tue, 21 Sep 2010 10:30:07 +0900	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87bp7r51eo.fsf@catnip.gol.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: E1Oxr9V-0001iM-CO@fencepost.gnu.org

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     But it's also the only such change that really matters for
>     newbie-friendless.
>
> I am not convinced it does.  The case in which newbies would expect
> Backspace to delete the region is after mouse-selecting it,

No.  Newbies actually use the keyboard too, you know (even if they're
not used to Emacs)...

Anyway, having mouse-regions be "magic" is confusingly inconsistent, and
a bad UI generally.  That was a big wart on Emacs in the past.

It's obviously impossible to have perfect defaults, because we're trying
to unify a widely disparate set of user experiences into one UI.  A
change that makes things better for some often makes others unhappy.

There's little we can do other than trying to minimize unhappiness, but
at least we can (1) keep things customizable, so those that just can't
deal with a change can easily find relief, and (2) try to make Emacs' UI
broadly consistent, so that's it's at least easy for users to form a
mental-model of how things work (and easy to document)...

-Miles

-- 
Carefully crafted initial estimates reward you not only with
reduced computational effort, but also with understanding and
increased self-esteem.         -- Numerical methods in C,
  Chapter 9. "Root Finding and Nonlinear Sets of Equations"




  parent reply	other threads:[~2010-09-21  1:30 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 133+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2010-09-18  1:49 C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-18  3:06 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 14:53   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18  8:34 ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-18 15:00   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 19:22   ` Chong Yidong
2010-09-20 16:11     ` Chong Yidong
2010-09-18  9:24 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18  9:45   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 10:06     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 10:15       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 12:02         ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 15:26           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 16:14           ` Christoph
2010-09-18 16:20             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-18 16:25               ` Christoph
2010-09-18 19:41                 ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 19:45                   ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:17                     ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:23                       ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:46                         ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 21:02                           ` Christoph
2010-09-19 21:28                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 23:26                               ` Christoph
2010-09-20  6:52                                 ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 21:39                             ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 23:39                               ` David De La Harpe Golden
2010-09-19 23:46                               ` Christoph
2010-09-18 15:15       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 14:21   ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 15:05   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 16:04     ` Stefan Monnier
2010-09-18 18:44       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 18:53         ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 19:11         ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20  0:16       ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  0:22         ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-20  3:10           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20 11:51             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-20  7:56           ` Bastien
2010-09-20 10:43             ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 11:21               ` Bastien
2010-09-20 11:34                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 12:07                   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 12:35                     ` Deniz Dogan
2010-09-20 12:37                       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 12:56                         ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-20 12:55                     ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-22  0:56             ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-22  5:11               ` Miles Bader
2010-09-23  0:58                 ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  1:24         ` Miles Bader
2010-09-21  0:56           ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-21  1:01             ` Lennart Borgman
2010-09-21  7:51               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-21  8:19                 ` PJ Weisberg
2010-09-21  1:30             ` Miles Bader [this message]
2010-09-21  1:47               ` Leo
2010-09-21  2:42                 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 16:47     ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:44       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 18:50         ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:13           ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 19:16             ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:39               ` Drew Adams
2010-09-19  6:31               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 11:07                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 11:23                   ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 20:42             ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 20:22       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-18 14:29 ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 15:07   ` Bastien
2010-09-18 15:52 ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:40   ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 18:47     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-18 19:09       ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 21:18       ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 14:00         ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:07           ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 18:00             ` Chad Brown
2010-09-19 18:21               ` Wojciech Meyer
2010-09-19 18:24                 ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-19 20:06                   ` Should C-x C-x activate the region? [was: C-d deleting region considered harmful] Drew Adams
2010-09-19 20:37                     ` David Reitter
2010-09-21  0:55                       ` Richard Stallman
2010-09-20  1:21                   ` C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-20  6:59                     ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 13:43                       ` Drew Adams
2010-09-20 16:02                       ` Miles Bader
2010-09-20  7:12                     ` Lars Magne Ingebrigtsen
2010-09-20  7:20                       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-20 16:34                     ` Chad Brown
2010-09-20 22:09                       ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Stefan Monnier
2010-09-20 22:46                         ` Chad Brown
2010-09-21  0:17                         ` C-x C-x Chong Yidong
2010-09-21 20:52                           ` Johan Bockgård
2010-09-21  0:28                         ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  1:06                           ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  7:49                           ` C-x C-x David Kastrup
2010-09-21  9:22                             ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  9:40                               ` David Kastrup
2010-09-24 23:59                                 ` Andrew W. Nosenko
2010-09-21  7:25                         ` C-x C-x (was: C-d deleting region considered harmful) Thierry Volpiatto
2010-09-21  1:03                       ` C-d deleting region considered harmful Miles Bader
2010-09-21 19:12                         ` Chad Brown
2010-09-19 18:59               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 19:14               ` Alan Mackenzie
2010-09-19 21:27               ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:12           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 21:11             ` Christoph
2010-09-21  6:29           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-09-21  8:04             ` David Kastrup
2010-09-21  8:23             ` Leo
2010-09-21  8:52               ` Deniz Dogan
2010-09-21  9:20                 ` Leo
2010-09-21  9:56                 ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2010-09-18 20:23     ` Christoph
2010-09-19  6:28       ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 12:40         ` Drew Adams
2010-09-19 13:38           ` Christoph
2010-09-19 14:06           ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 19:18             ` David Kastrup
2010-09-19 19:58               ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-22  9:31                 ` Eli Zaretskii
2010-09-19 13:55       ` Sebastian Rose
2010-09-19 14:23         ` Christoph
2010-09-18 18:44   ` Drew Adams
2010-09-19  1:05 ` Richard Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2010-09-18 11:55 dhruva
2010-09-18 14:22 ` Miles Bader
2010-09-18 15:18 ` Drew Adams
2010-09-18 17:48 ` David Kastrup
2010-09-18 19:24   ` Drew Adams

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