From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Karl Fogel Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: DVCSes, bug trackers, and GNUness Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 13:29:35 -0500 Message-ID: <87bomfy8a8.fsf@floss.red-bean.com> References: Reply-To: Karl Fogel NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1335378598 18720 80.91.229.3 (25 Apr 2012 18:29:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2012 18:29:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , Emacs development discussions To: Jordi =?utf-8?Q?Guti=C3=A9rrez?= Hermoso Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Apr 25 20:29:56 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1SN6yO-0004w7-RS for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 20:29:53 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:47859 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SN6yO-0005kE-5M for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:29:52 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:45451) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SN6yL-0005k5-Ck for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:29:50 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SN6yI-0004XV-Th for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:29:48 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-gy0-f169.google.com ([209.85.160.169]:48542) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1SN6yI-0004Vo-NO for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:29:46 -0400 Original-Received: by ghrr18 with SMTP id r18so474364ghr.0 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:29:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=sender:from:to:cc:subject:references:reply-to:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=jT7i+lHs9G5E7v7jOetdW8vrdxYF4ecHCmlQ5HZvL6g=; b=aYJGc6PXSN1LaAok6OzC4+Ec23lreenC3qXqUVAqswakthLKviwPtILZuO0BCdNf1H dRy2lpvpuoB+fScKGPC/rzMICTi4ZS2GIq4p2EOITI0wG12zUNk/j35zxwnNKNgp4qAT rFuDWk7TPKPfyGj4tTKy46Ec/+5nqtMjsSsvyk8TiT1TMTqyrs6L8NrG3Q8TQupgEA2t /2F/xcTQMBPIl5Ss7ZcrTGJm28Dkj1+kY5F6GSNfmgy1D0imGbxS8SmyA9+XnGdFjHJR AgOlACUr02CBWt108XkWxjhZGds4qmbR2wfz4hwwx9Or5e8J980vk2NjxpR1Z/UD4dqU EHnQ== Original-Received: by 10.236.75.232 with SMTP id z68mr3695197yhd.6.1335378584917; Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:29:44 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from floss.red-bean.com (h-68-164-6-232.chcgilgm.dynamic.covad.net. [68.164.6.232]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id b4sm337032anb.22.2012.04.25.11.29.40 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=OTHER); Wed, 25 Apr 2012 11:29:43 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: ("Jordi =?utf-8?Q?Guti=C3=A9rrez?= Hermoso"'s message of "Wed, 25 Apr 2012 14:02:47 -0400") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.1.50 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 209.85.160.169 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:150024 Archived-At: Jordi Guti=C3=A9rrez Hermoso writes: >2012/4/25 Stefan Monnier : >>> Shouldn't we switch to Savannah and fix it? =C2=A0Isn't that what we're >>> supposed to do about bzr? =C2=A0Why isn't there an executive decision to >>> prefer the GNU package? >> >> I'd rather not discuss the Bzr decision. > >No, let's. Because I know you're tired of it, and I know why you are: >It's the decision everyone hated but taken only because of GNUness. > >I want a similar decision for the BTS. If it's about GNUness, then >stop using debbugs. Technical merits don't matter, right? That's what >everyone said about bzr. So, if technical merits don't matter, I want >you to force everyone to stop using debbugs, no matter how painful it >is, and to start working with me on fixing Savane. > >Be consistent. Either do it for all of Emacs infrastructure or none. >Don't be selective about what gets the GNU stamp of approval and what >doesn't. That's not an accurate characterization of the Bzr decision. This is based just on my memory, but if you want to check this in the archives I'm pretty sure they'll match up. No one ever said that technical merits don't matter. What several people, including Richard, said was that all other things being equal -- or close enough to equal -- then Emacs should go with the GNU project. That criterion was certainly met with Bzr. If Bzr had required a heavy investment of development before it would be meet the technical needs of the Emacs project, then the decision would have been different. But it already met the needs, so that issue didn't come up. (As it happens, it's gotten even better since then, so the "all other things being equal" has slowly come closer to just "equal".) I am not defending the decision to use Bzr. I'm merely explaining that it was made on a different basis than the one you claim above. No principle was in play that would imply we must also choose Savane now if we want to be consistent. -Karl