From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Time to drop the pre-dump phase in the build? Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:58:31 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87bnzjigvc.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20140110191530.5772E38019B@snark.thyrsus.com> <52D071EC.4090607@dancol.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1389394738 13767 80.91.229.3 (10 Jan 2014 22:58:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2014 22:58:58 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Jan 10 23:59:05 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2a-0002Ms-Ph for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:59:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59392 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2a-0007Zv-Dc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:59:00 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:36816) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2S-0007Yv-1D for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:58:58 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2K-0001XY-DC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:58:51 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:44662) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2K-0001Wb-6P for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 17:58:44 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1W1l2H-0001n0-R6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:58:41 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f3c77e.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.243.199.126]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:58:41 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f3c77e.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 10 Jan 2014 23:58:41 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 22 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f3c77e.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.3.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:BqdoYQUU8VbyUvTBZo2Ev1zjg8o= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:168051 Archived-At: Daniel Colascione writes: > On 01/10/2014 11:15 AM, Eric S. Raymond wrote: > >> (4) We're presently buying some startup speed at the cost of a larger >> minimum working set. > > The minimum working set is zero. Modern operating systems demand-page > necessary information. That's a popular misconception. The key point to note is "page" in demand-paging. Unless one uses a garbage collection and topological sort and compaction of the memory, most of the stuff that will get paged in along with required data will not get accessed because it is unrelated. Now a temacs dump has not seen much action with regard to fragmentation, but still the normal Lisp programming styles allocate and release enough transient memory that the image will be mixed up quite more than byte-compiled files will be. Of course, if the byte-compiled files are small, you'll get into block waste as well. -- David Kastrup