From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:02:39 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87bnnirso0.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <2815659.zRQ0WWWeRr@descartes> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417795400 31075 80.91.229.3 (5 Dec 2014 16:03:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2014 16:03:20 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 05 17:03:12 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLZ-0001EE-Lp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:03:09 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:51165 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLZ-00067a-AA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:03:09 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44715) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLQ-00067R-Ui for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:03:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLK-00060G-Rq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:03:00 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:44276) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLK-0005zt-M1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 11:02:54 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XwvLJ-000188-FR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:02:53 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.31.171]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:02:53 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 17:02:53 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 35 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:kccmSmWgOkFlMkB5kYG4grY3IzQ= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:178948 Archived-At: Rüdiger Sonderfeld writes: > On Friday 05 December 2014 07:35:49 Eric S. Raymond wrote: >> The positioning problem is that info/Texinfo makes us look like a >> steam-powered archaic joke to younger developers. Text-only >> presentation with obtrusive links and a complex command set for a >> viewer that's *not a web browser*? In 2014? Really? > > texinfo does support images and in fact the info viewer in GNU Emacs supports > those images. But sadly this doesn't seem to be common knowledge and there > are even projects who use images in their texinfo documents disabling them for > the info support and only enabling them for html/pdf export. E.g., I recently > provided a patch to GNU Octave to change this but still there are cases where > it shows a "no image" text instead. Can it be related to "Yelp" (the GNOME documentation viewer) nominally supporting images, but if you start it on documentation containing not merely a few novelty images but documenting every feature with example images (like the LilyPond info tree does), it will hang literally forever? Emacs is the _only_ Info reader I know that can handle the LilyPond documentation including images. The standalone info reader is not phased by the LilyPond documentation, but it does not show the images either. > But I have to agree that info(1) is just confusing and weird. I only > started liking info pages after I started to use the GNU Emacs info > reader. Yes, and it is the only one really worth using. But Texinfo has more output formats than just Info. -- David Kastrup