From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Metaproblem, part 3 Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:04:02 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87bnnhox99.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> References: <20141203142859.24393.98673@vcs.savannah.gnu.org> <20141203193110.GF12748@thyrsus.com> <20141203215426.GA15791@thyrsus.com> <87ppbzplcw.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <83iohr48kr.fsf@gnu.org> <83388u4bps.fsf@gnu.org> <87egsejkrt.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87tx19jpqz.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87k3255ggb.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1417863877 20463 80.91.229.3 (6 Dec 2014 11:04:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 6 Dec 2014 11:04:37 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 06 12:04:32 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDA7-0003Qq-Bu for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:04:31 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:54044 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxDA6-0000GL-Ul for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:04:30 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45810) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxD9y-0000FM-Oy for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:04:28 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxD9t-0000aR-4C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:04:22 -0500 Original-Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:34078) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XxD9s-0000aA-Mp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 06:04:17 -0500 Original-Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XxD9q-0003J6-I1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:04:14 +0100 Original-Received: from x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de ([2.245.31.171]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:04:14 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Sat, 06 Dec 2014 12:04:14 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 43 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: x2f51fab.dyn.telefonica.de X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/25.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:MNwD7mXnAyddjbX5Z4uvAESgue0= X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Genre and OS details not recognized. X-Received-From: 80.91.229.3 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179152 Archived-At: Eric Abrahamsen writes: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > >> Eric Abrahamsen writes: >> >> > It would be nice to explicitly let posters know that they can ask >> > someone for help with implementing a feature/squashing a >> > bug. There's lots of helpful advice here and on emacs.help, but >> > that's not quite the same as knowing that someone has committed >> > (to some extent) to assisting you. >> >> I see worries about "hostile" environment, and suggestions for making >> things more welcoming to new contributors. I have to ask, what do >> all you folks who are suggesting Emacs change its procedures think is >> in it for the mentors and core developers? > > FWIW (not much), I have never felt any hostility here or in emacs.help, > and I'm not complaining about anything. Possibly I haven't felt it > because I'm coming in at such a low level that no nerves are touched -- > I'm asking basic questions. See, that's your mistake. The first steps towards feeling hostility on developer lists is to tell people that they are doing it all wrong but they are lucky you came around to tell them. There are a lot of variations on the theme, of course. But if you feel that a technical mailing list as such rather than, say, an isolated person having a bad day, act hostile, chances are that you score in that area. > The only reason I chimed in is because I'm one of those who would love > to contribute more substantially, but needs guidance. For example, > I've got the basics of an epub-editing mode in place. I'd like it to > be a solid library, and would likely need assistance to get it there. Can you figure out what is missing and phrase it into questions? While there is the phenomenon that if you are asking 10 people, you'll get 20 answers, I think that for basic problems the Emacs list will not split into so many different factions of "do it my way" that you'll get much more confusing answers from the group of people reading this list than you would get from a single tutor. -- David Kastrup