From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich =?utf-8?Q?Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1?= =?utf-8?Q?=2FKammer?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs rewrite in a maintainable language Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:32:24 +0200 Message-ID: <87bnbxwgd3.fsf@T420.taylan> References: <561A19AB.5060001@cumego.com> <87io6dl0h0.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87lhb82qxc.fsf@gmail.com> <87oag4jk74.fsf@wanadoo.es> <87k2qrki45.fsf@wanadoo.es> <8737xf9je9.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87pp0fm0j3.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3kusx8z.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <83lhb26eb9.fsf@gnu.org> <876126key3.fsf@gnu.org> <83fv1a6bfu.fsf@gnu.org> <87d1weo7u9.fsf@gnu.org> <83zizi3qr0.fsf@gnu.org> <87lhb1n81y.fsf@gnu.org> <87a8rhqzdd.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <871tctxy1a.fsf@T420.taylan> <87twpppgtq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1445103173 2767 80.91.229.3 (17 Oct 2015 17:32:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2015 17:32:53 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?= , Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Oct 17 19:32:52 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnVLf-0002R7-Gd for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:32:51 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59280 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnVLe-0005cx-S1 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:32:50 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:45718) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnVLI-0005ce-VS for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:32:30 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnVLH-0000xV-S7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:32:28 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-wi0-x233.google.com ([2a00:1450:400c:c05::233]:37624) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1ZnVLH-0000xR-MC; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 13:32:27 -0400 Original-Received: by wicfv8 with SMTP id fv8so28384316wic.0; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:32:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=89l+a1RD/61nRCurx0sPP8H8StaZRj0wP5KZi9Y/yyU=; b=xmGnXFyHFyTmizfptQgyAMu7OqblFDr+rPd6FmAQCDMt7srABtY3rXYSecbMPI5Zmz cG1M8l+saMkE5UZ8IQ3WmCRwZS1LMqlyRjKxuSL/DynX817kXu3CevRgeu0I+HA8EGQi eyyDsEYpAE4Ac/kjCh1iBcPVkcSXOMNjSYHbdFl9g6tAYjAxbRhN06vf60A2Uf8F5Uq6 aEFzdC89qOCt40R1EfKcqHz/OzBpBYyEmpznl4/J2ccNT5baVohYYO2h2eRA/BAfXZnh qHXn1MVxM8Z9YdwGkpOlErNgA7qpiRoH+2Pd9AAyY85mEcLLmUpt+diBIaLvuAd8nkV0 Xaxw== X-Received: by 10.180.10.101 with SMTP id h5mr11932645wib.27.1445103147037; Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:32:27 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from T420.taylan ([2a02:908:c32:4740:221:ccff:fe66:68f0]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id h8sm7829578wib.21.2015.10.17.10.32.25 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 17 Oct 2015 10:32:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87twpppgtq.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> (David Kastrup's message of "Sat, 17 Oct 2015 19:04:17 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.5 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a00:1450:400c:c05::233 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:191863 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > taylanbayirli@gmail.com (Taylan Ulrich "Bay=C4=B1rl=C4=B1/Kammer") writes: > >> I haven't followed the whole discussion but I'd like to remind that >> GuileEmacs already runs currently, and from what I know none of the >> problems it faces are related to string handling. It just lets Elisp >> strings be a separate data type. >> >> I guess the discussion was about rewriting bigger parts of Emacs in >> Guile-Scheme, which might be one possible way to go forward but not >> necessary. >> >> Most of the benefits in e.g. http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacs >> apply without having to solve the string problem. Specifically, from >> the overview section, the first two points and half of the third should >> apply I think. > > The first two points concern efficiency. Emacs is _all_ about working > with strings, and the last report of GuileEmacs stated something like > GuileEmacs being about an order of magnitude slower specifically because > of having to special-case Emacs strings and buffers. > > Emacs is first and foremost an editor. Substantial increases of > efficiency in most general programming areas at the cost of abysmal > performance in text processing are not going to make the race. I think you're misremembering. It might be that you have strings in mind because not being able to serialize Elisp strings means having to compile everything at each startup, making startup slow. And maybe you have buffers in mind because buffer-local variables and other weird binding semantics of Elisp need special handling. Neither is related to the run-time performance of string handling, of course. Hmm, what would be a good benchmark of Elisp string handling that won't be affected by the performance of dynamic binding of variables or other such things? I'd like to just test it instead of hypothesize. Taylan