From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Marcin Borkowski Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why does the tutorial talk about C-n/C-p etc? Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:17:35 +0100 Message-ID: <87bn6kw4fk.fsf@mbork.pl> References: <87y49q64eg.fsf@russet.org.uk> <837fhamxwq.fsf@gnu.org> <87io0u4bip.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83mvq5jcw7.fsf@gnu.org> <87shzxdkbe.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vb4sj34t.fsf@gnu.org> <87r3fgu13h.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83vb4sgpek.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1457767099 10212 80.91.229.3 (12 Mar 2016 07:18:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2016 07:18:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, fgunbin@fastmail.fm, Phillip Lord To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Mar 12 08:18:11 2016 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1aedoR-0003DS-1W for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:18:11 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59260 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aedoQ-0000dV-9y for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 02:18:10 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44041) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aedoC-0000dO-HA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 02:17:57 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aedoB-0006ST-Dw for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 02:17:56 -0500 Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([2a01:5e00:2:52::8]:33234) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1aedo7-0006Q8-HL; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 02:17:51 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44BD99FD6E9; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:17:41 +0100 (CET) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at mail.mojserwer.eu Original-Received: from mail.mojserwer.eu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.mojserwer.eu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4VCR2RrnsiMK; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:17:36 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from localhost (unknown [109.232.24.28]) by mail.mojserwer.eu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5045B9FD6E7; Sat, 12 Mar 2016 08:17:36 +0100 (CET) User-agent: mu4e 0.9.13; emacs 25.1.50.6 In-reply-to: <83vb4sgpek.fsf@gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 2a01:5e00:2:52::8 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:201525 Archived-At: On 2016-03-12, at 07:51, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) >> Cc: yuri.v.khan@gmail.com, fgunbin@fastmail.fm, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:00:18 +0000 >> >> > Isn't that a chicken-and-egg problem? How can you have a tutorial >> > that depends on enough knowledge needed to install ELPA packages? >> >> No, it's fine. The idea is that the basic tutorial (part of Emacs >> tarball) runs up to the point of installing an ELPA package. That ELPA >> package in the first instance will just be something that says "well >> done". In the second instance, the ELPA package can do something >> funkier, but one step at a time. > > So I guess the issue boils down to where are you drawing the line > between the two parts. Although it feels strange to have a tutorial > divided in two, with the need to install an ELPA package in the > middle. But that's me. It /is/ strange indeed. But imagine a tutorial split in more parts, where the first part is a general introduction, and the rest are branches in various directions. Sort of like the Emacs guided tour, but with the tourist being able to actually choose the path once the basics are covered. Not only does this sound cool, it also showcases what /can/ be done in Emacs. I think that if the first part makes it clear that this is not any kind of hack compiled in to make this sort of tutorial possible, but a routine use of Emacs programmability, this might become an interesting selling point. And one of those branches should be (info "(eintr) Top"), or maybe its first chapter converted into an interactive tutorial. This shouldn't be too hard to do (the text is written, after all, and written very well), and might draw a bunch of people into Elisp. I can even imagine similar tutorials for other popular languages; they might show how to configure a basic python|C|whatever environment and how to use it. For instance, REPL with python, compiling with C etc. Phil, would you want me to start preliminary work on such a "eintr tutorial branch"? Best, -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz University