From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: Mark Oteiza Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Change in files.el Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:31 -0500 Message-ID: <87bmurjack.fsf@udel.edu> References: <83mvebzh0k.fsf@gnu.org> <83bmurz0y9.fsf@gnu.org> <8360kzyxor.fsf@gnu.org> <83ziibxg7j.fsf@gnu.org> <83y3xvxfbs.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1485628904 16327 195.159.176.226 (28 Jan 2017 18:41:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 28 Jan 2017 18:41:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Stefan Monnier Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Jan 28 19:41:40 2017 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1cXXwQ-0003kX-U9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 19:41:39 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52811 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cXXwW-00021N-E7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:44 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:60222) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cXXwP-0001w6-D7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:38 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cXXwM-0001lL-Ap for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:37 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-qk0-x22d.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d]:35487) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1cXXwM-0001l2-55 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:34 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-qk0-x22d.google.com with SMTP id u25so93466882qki.2 for ; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:41:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=udel-edu.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id :user-agent:mime-version; bh=2HhvEAIiHCh8ux6ksEyEah8BIeOPCwGbEpgeWlt+Sa0=; b=s8DjtQe5e/FnYz67A0exl4c+tx5RFAWCL9nDXeLhytEbvA8cjC7LZXxaEcdmnUAYcS YQE08XOm3GKONXQZob6uIFTWwQNWwGAx9Z2fFpUUf5FlwCvox7zmqffDZJfyvkQI5YY1 AzRMHw2NxoIyAs/BHdMMWa2UPpeZSi+5m60vc3aYLqnhTpGLT51izVEi1s6ITzpcAKRi NlVZ9rpmjWbek0iPnqko+3jVP25Khb0VWKRBIAfMnIWq6Cyt1LusYL3YOYuDy9LdvQd9 9UD2MT5/QAuablwEv/6fUqyw5ZZUz7L0R7H9+oFreYx1l1wA9DDKmqbKhFeCGp6FTlLR e2RQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:references:date:in-reply-to :message-id:user-agent:mime-version; bh=2HhvEAIiHCh8ux6ksEyEah8BIeOPCwGbEpgeWlt+Sa0=; b=ctDK6ZqicHPX1gQl7HAseax71XsQQgcvlYfGtEIMoKlJO2S4b7eaHG8zv8y8vbQcF6 lT672PVu3zbmbhyRhn4HQUOVoeVy/s2/XUW4jCpK7PNLgMAxIi8XR1W/4Y0b57SwvQ6k uY8Dyo2bc0qtXrqdK9Zwt52hOFJ6YdiKSsyHSOn0h2SmqRRK2sBrh+jyKVI27LxWhlLT VLWerOrNpwgRPEYByEKvZV1KHOvMNk3M2/YUn4Yd7g9nJ++z6EF8PrLUarI+ERgiLkHQ //9y5ApNoAsZTg3fMyovkjRO0zeiENxjBg71v9GKYZGvOgdD8Lr1MmcE7D+K+VIY2f1d KHrg== X-Gm-Message-State: AIkVDXJnSFvOX8Bw83kQXrLJvt8ezFfzwT2mFV4UBAjN+XmG2pBLMNfGeI+Vv83JhHk6yB61 X-Received: by 10.55.5.11 with SMTP id 11mr14390317qkf.262.1485628893399; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:41:33 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from holos.localdomain (pool-173-67-40-97.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net. [173.67.40.97]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i187sm7275030qkd.20.2017.01.28.10.41.31 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 28 Jan 2017 10:41:32 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: by holos.localdomain (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 8A29D66372; Sat, 28 Jan 2017 13:41:31 -0500 (EST) In-Reply-To: (Stefan Monnier's message of "Sat, 28 Jan 2017 12:42:22 -0500") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22d X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:211708 Archived-At: Stefan Monnier writes: >>> Anyway, I definitely see what you mean. I just disagree on the >>> seriousness of the problem, and on the impact of the guideline on it. >> The issue is not serious enough to prevent people from using the >> methods you'd like to see, but I question the wisdom of having a >> project-wide guidelines to _always_ use them is similar situations. > > I think the benefits are the following: > - (eventually) more consistency, such as knowing that you can use > `add-function` will work right on any *-predicate or > *-function variable. > - until recently, it was common for such variables to have a nil > default value. Without an active effort to reverse this, we'll always > end up with such new variables introduced with a nil default value > (especially since it's very common for new such variables to have > a trivial default behavior, and only accumulating complexity later > on, at which point it's a lot more difficult to change the default to > be non-nil). Wasn't the reason any of these defaults changed simply so that add-function would work? Having the default be ignore suggests that one can/should always funcall a FOO-function, and its arguments (should it have any) will be evaluated. In order to avoid this we now have to check (as is the case in eldoc) if FOO-function is equal to nil or ignore.