From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk (Phillip Lord) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Some developement questions Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2018 15:07:34 +0200 Message-ID: <87bm9d9zs9.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <8336v6cvem.fsf@gnu.org> <8736v6icgt.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83tvnmb958.fsf@gnu.org> <877ekigiiw.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <837ekhb2me.fsf@gnu.org> <87zhxcbmtr.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83in409lub.fsf@gnu.org> <871sanb71j.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <83y3cu7t9j.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8t2ki9.fsf@himinbjorg.adminart.net> <20180827015422.lcq44zvsjffeau4j@Ergus> <83a7p76f5e.fsf@gnu.org> <87lg8p9o6y.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83pnxx1foj.fsf@gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1536066362 24556 195.159.176.226 (4 Sep 2018 13:06:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2018 13:06:02 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/26.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: hw@adminart.net, Eli Zaretskii , spacibba@aol.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Sep 04 15:05:57 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB1p-0006DQ-3r for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 15:05:57 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50896 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB3v-0004TP-47 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 09:08:07 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:55068) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB3k-0004TH-Kd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 09:07:58 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB3f-0003Nc-6v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 09:07:56 -0400 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:35936) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB3S-0003FE-0y; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 09:07:39 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=OjHpaEvqHgFCLAU8P08vK8rbcFhqnvm15y+6JHyyaYs=; b=baBKGJiJXXAeqBSUWNS4tdr8G +f3/UrsCSBGTN2vmeASRbKTxWTTg67yLGZ+er3tI5iQOx7BmxAySxVM5tgQjIERa7b19DBIXENUtk BdNB8v/SAKuXHQFjKKtYZ5sVJeyQOHJA+qkC0MqY3P2cwGhJMH7jEhBn2aNV5kzW/vxO67jnyp63r Lz4mGsuW6BhRwpi2aEWgAKI39KJ+OBZZhCBkHaIQ35tALHuabm29XZtx+uK/GLoqDtWObeLq0HzOV 3oZpDiP/8g76HUX/eSZSvpNEH1bn/GEERU0qlt6nE8LAuSY/PJQSZhetboBis6Jv3WJXU94JO25NE 5gHIxoSSg==; Original-Received: from [213.244.170.154] (port=50496 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.91) (envelope-from ) id 1fxB3P-006AEe-O8; Tue, 04 Sep 2018 13:07:35 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Sat, 01 Sep 2018 23:11:48 -0400") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 78.129.138.110 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229226 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > The existing TUTORIAL file is designed so that you try out the commands > while editing TUTORIAL itself. > > I get the impression that the proposed new tutorial doesn't do that. > > What are the intended advantages of the new one? Yeah. Most of that stuff is "move cursor back and forward". It's too slow for most new users and freaks them out. While it was well intended at the time, I think, it is now a negative feature of the tutorial. I would like to add automation which would work better. So where it says "create a new frame", it would be nice to have a click button which actually does this for you. The advantage of dumping the "you can edit this file" stuff is that a) the code gets much simpler, because you don't have to store the users copy and b) we should be able to use some rich text visualisation to put images, screenshots as well as the clickable buttons described in the last paragraph. At the moment, I have done none of this more intelligent stuff however. Phil