From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Juri Linkov Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Emacs i18n Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2019 23:58:25 +0200 Organization: LINKOV.NET Message-ID: <87bm2p56gu.fsf@mail.linkov.net> References: <87o97aq6gz.fsf@jidanni.org> <87tvgoud56.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83o96wk2mi.fsf@gnu.org> <87k1hjfvjd.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <871s3p0zdz.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <83h8ckezyt.fsf@gnu.org> <83o96qegv1.fsf@gnu.org> <32b1ab1b-bef4-629a-8830-b1dcc6915087@cs.ucla.edu> <83a7iae9va.fsf@gnu.org> <05ed2dec-2a84-f7dc-1af5-c9d923992785@cs.ucla.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: blaine.gmane.org; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:195.159.176.226"; logging-data="179385"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@blaine.gmane.org" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (x86_64-pc-linux-gnu) Cc: Eli Zaretskii , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Paul Eggert Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Mar 05 23:16:05 2019 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:256) (Exim 4.89) (envelope-from ) id 1h1IM0-000kX1-Ly for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; 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c=relaxed; d=linkov.net; h=from:to:cc :subject:references:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; s=linkov.net; bh=NluzxCiup5VNQNEFZlEYsxu6VGg=; b= PsRQl9cliwUdn2hRIjnQzB8jfDVTYUZ6YjcGXlZUWGX9s2kmp5gq40CbCmi3H1eF ufl4I4NCUO1pw7yi/NS9hmKlN6m9f3TRqqWcHI3WPZP5DTsM8OtfbxxXZmM+lyXV FT8wTLEgHeULlyNdFvJDp83reMkAR1eoGRQpbHNsehM= Original-Received: from mail.jurta.org (m91-129-98-103.cust.tele2.ee [91.129.98.103]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: jurta@jurta.org) by pdx1-sub0-mail-a46.g.dreamhost.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 284C880270; Tue, 5 Mar 2019 14:15:05 -0800 (PST) X-DH-BACKEND: pdx1-sub0-mail-a46 In-Reply-To: <05ed2dec-2a84-f7dc-1af5-c9d923992785@cs.ucla.edu> (Paul Eggert's message of "Mon, 4 Mar 2019 18:09:41 -0800") X-VR-OUT-STATUS: OK X-VR-OUT-SCORE: -100 X-VR-OUT-SPAMCAUSE: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedutddrfeefgdduiedtucetufdoteggodetrfdotffvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuggftfghnshhusghstghrihgsvgdpffftgfetoffjqffuvfenuceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmnecujfgurhephffvufhofhffjgfkfgggtgesthdtredttdertdenucfhrhhomheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqeenucfkphepledurdduvdelrdelkedruddtfeenucfrrghrrghmpehmohguvgepshhmthhppdhhvghlohepmhgrihhlrdhjuhhrthgrrdhorhhgpdhinhgvthepledurdduvdelrdelkedruddtfedprhgvthhurhhnqdhprghthheplfhurhhiucfnihhnkhhovhcuoehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtqedpmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpehjuhhriheslhhinhhkohhvrdhnvghtpdhnrhgtphhtthhopegvghhgvghrthestghsrdhutghlrgdrvgguuhenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedu X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 23.83.209.151 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:233856 Archived-At: >> The infrastructure used for that will most probably not work for Lisp, >> let alone allow separate translations for separate packages to be >> brought together and used in the same Emacs session. > > I don't see why it wouldn't work for Elisp. The gettext infrastructure > allows multiple message catalogs in the same session. Obviously some > hacking would be involved, since Elisp currently doesn't do any of this; > but it could be built atop the existing infrastructure used by other GNU > applications rather than being rewritten from scratch. One of the main decisions that has to be made is whether to wrap all user-facing translatable strings in all Lisp files using a macro/function 'gettext' (alias '_') explicitly like is implemented in XEmacs' I18N3 that would help to extract translations from the source code, or to use a low-level implicit translation without changing the existing code like is implemented for handling text-quoting-style in format strings. The latter will even allow translation of strings that a package author forgot to mark with '_'. Depending on this decision a translation file format has to be selected, be it flat Gettext PO format files or even some YAML-like hierarchical Lisp structures with scopes.