From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Making Emacs more friendly to newcomers Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2020 15:22:20 +0800 Message-ID: <87blnoey8j.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <863691n4xl.wl-me@enzu.ru> <87imhw431x.fsf@yahoo.com> <87mu78huhx.fsf_-_@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="58480"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: ndame , Richard Stallman , Ahmed Khanzada , "joseph.h.garvin@gmail.com" , "stefan@marxist.se" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "eliz@gnu.org" , "drew.adams@oracle.com" To: Eduardo Ochs Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 19 09:23:29 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ4Ia-000F8h-M5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 09:23:28 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:38680 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ4IZ-0002Yo-PG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:23:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59296) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ4Hi-0001Kg-SM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:22:35 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ4Hh-0002Dg-M1 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:22:34 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.186.204]:38338) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jQ4Hh-0002Bs-7Z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 03:22:33 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1587280951; bh=ringR+FKsv5uO+S3hegRheGZgPw4avRO1wGtX8qL7L4=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject; b=fKcuRL7ZHZ1ZdCpkcCn3Kh9lqwT+x1WffqkLc6lUHMUyX56jCrwOa5Y1Mnx1c1oCArD6YsL3qf2DunIJdGMpT4Z0rc/hZIMatj02QsFTB95slfnnIziID6NII20gjfACW0qFu89X+VFIxaVw5+Nrptu5GBiF6EiMcam9Vr5jpif6ky3WZByfCtAP/wq+AfhkUneN8SEa46dChjrpsf6nc3gWw73cZJNq46JxCbiK4wLq9z6kzW+S5VXVV/xjkUktG2smep2JKIDcBPN3e83QtcJGKFQly69SrhmvQpSlO3YMyF0k3UgO+SCRwZP4SpZPmoZggLOXzad+nm/eYNkuTw== X-YMail-OSG: xPcqCPoVM1kXtGcb4pG43amzbqhx3QFk6Yij6a.30bJByWVo1PYFOOgFat2Xj7C mZUNqS_KO_iYwYdbGA4ztsRT8nhXX_rdKD2vZ9QqUluN3oJe7J.T2MBvqpTZAZIEv_0qezOKuPDe FcDqgl8l3VINdLgSAx.Dun07YNFFQ8Cy_owi1GZ4wqfvKBheeeEXc6iZSQ8cAONEdO8RyIudke2i gKNHFjMZs1rzRAz2RKN5PSPk4LCkF.vDFEFeeI65NAOHGL4BsEJ5y2EC3O8eUQ1rRMlzX_2X.Fgy UROKB0yNdDECxRpSoGjFYJpd_ewZcEUSaVrVEcCnXxLnzXUZ98a.gXLBCKB0dvMCe8vjEok_KxwR nh3nwFWyRShXypZQtqvQPXOsreipHAKeiquKv6kKxJIWlrE.IDkXs_0c_4J00gp5VunMtqpvtF_h Gic7vRFSRJs1rrhQZcZ6dAaj2jW5QaLT98YqZOwuB3B0v4Ju8PjLIHP8_3wBJvSL6vX5YGOe2hYc 2UphHFVOrf7fCuUVR0ofdgXPfh2gkbDA_R5ukmFL1bdI9_Ir5kxgNk.lJNK9vdW9_JtvXtn98pES JIv4rqbck6GuRke1MZIciXTaZ_jHEp0m_bW3X_JTTVTuYC6kjEialFc3Iti.zGXXyYst_5gEajMU RAO1rGgQsU36AI.zijhi4VBfSB.ngq3OEI6bBrPia.ceq2KXNw.r9vBIY6Qcm8q6MBJvt2N934Mb q3bsvs6Bu0VagzcVAcIrl_F4Z1SRarGxFVYvtmCZ_40_hZxObWtR1Wm.PBzxCFlPXGoiw4J.wzgf XQdFPuz_aW89k.oKW546ftVxXYXRR6XGQlyVqo9RuI Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic310.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 07:22:31 +0000 Original-Received: by smtp410.mail.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8a3df9cb0acb0d66a3b0f7d845e0f69a; Sun, 19 Apr 2020 07:22:26 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Eduardo Ochs's message of "Sun, 19 Apr 2020 07:54:30 +0100") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.15651 hermes Apache-HttpAsyncClient/4.1.4 (Java/11.0.6) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.186.204; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic310-23.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Linux 3.1-3.10 X-Received-From: 66.163.186.204 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:247290 Archived-At: Eduardo Ochs writes: > There are several different ways of making Emacs more friendly for > newcomers, and we should take a look at all these different ways and > try to connect them somehow. > > I gave a presentation about my way at the last EmacsConf. It's here: > > http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html > > and I mentioned briefly in the presentation - in slides 11-13 - how > I've been using it to teach Emacs to lots of beginners. To make a long > story very short: > > 0) install Emacs and eev in their machines, > > 1) teach them the basics of Lisp _IN THE FIRST FIVE MINUTES_, > > 2) show them how to navigate using the keys M-e, M-j, and M-k, > and the menu bar and the tool bar. > > From the docs: > > M-e - to follow a hyperlink. Mnemonic: "(e)valuate"/"(e)xecute". > > M-j - to jump to certain predefined places. In particular, M-j > without a numeric argument takes you to a buffer with basic > help and a list of jump targets. See: > > http://angg.twu.net/eev-intros/find-eev-quick-intro.html#7.2 > > M-k - to go back. Mnemonic: "(k)ill buffer". > > > Cheers, > Eduardo Ochs > http://angg.twu.net/#eev > http://angg.twu.net/emacsconf2019.html > > Your perspective is interesting. However, I think new users should be allowed to slowly adapt to the Emacs way, while being able to utilize their existing workflow and habits, instead of being fed a new set of habits and workflows in the first 5 minutes.