From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.ciao.gmane.io!not-for-mail From: Yoni Rabkin Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: What is GNU ELPA? Date: Sun, 17 May 2020 10:49:02 -0400 Message-ID: <87blmmehwh.fsf@rabkins.net> References: <35DBF02E-44D7-41E5-A217-7D6EC84ED221@icloud.com> <07d7ff5d-dd57-00e7-933f-3188d57d6185@yandex.ru> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="ciao.gmane.io:159.69.161.202"; logging-data="50797"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: joostkremers@fastmail.fm, Emacs-devel@gnu.org, ams@gnu.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, pcr910303@icloud.com, Dmitry Gutov , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Richard Stallman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun May 17 16:49:46 2020 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1jaKbo-000D65-7C for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 16:49:44 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37214 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaKbn-00055A-8E for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 10:49:43 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:44304) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaKbD-0004e5-6Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2020 10:49:07 -0400 Original-Received: from smtprelay0033.hostedemail.com ([216.40.44.33]:33480 helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jaKbC-0006MC-AF; Sun, 17 May 2020 10:49:06 -0400 Original-Received: from filter.hostedemail.com (clb03-v110.bra.tucows.net [216.40.38.60]) by smtprelay05.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA8818029123; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:49:04 +0000 (UTC) X-Session-Marker: 796F6E69407261626B696E732E6E6574 X-HE-Tag: boys94_8948c9a10920b X-Filterd-Recvd-Size: 4149 Original-Received: from birch.rabkins.net (c-73-238-99-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net [73.238.99.162]) (Authenticated sender: yoni@rabkins.net) by omf04.hostedemail.com (Postfix) with ESMTPA; Sun, 17 May 2020 14:49:03 +0000 (UTC) X-Ethics: Use GNU In-Reply-To: (Richard Stallman's message of "Thu, 14 May 2020 23:19:26 -0400") Received-SPF: none client-ip=216.40.44.33; envelope-from=yoni@rabkins.net; helo=smtprelay.hostedemail.com X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/05/17 10:49:04 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001 autolearn=_AUTOLEARN X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:250608 Archived-At: Richard Stallman writes: > [[[ To any NSA and FBI agents reading my email: please consider ]]] > [[[ whether defending the US Constitution against all enemies, ]]] > [[[ foreign or domestic, requires you to follow Snowden's example. ]]] > > > > Most people (somewhat wrongly) think of GNU ELPA as a *distribution* > > > site for third party packages, like MELPA. > > > > > > > > > I just wanted to confirm that it's indeed the case for a lot of users. > > What do we say now to explain what GNU ELPA is? > And where do we say it? > Will users see that explanation > in the normal workflow of using packages from GNU ELPA? In case it is an interesting data point, ELPA may be invisible and un-discoverable to many Emacs users. Here is why I think this may be the case: I've been using Emacs for decades, and I use it every day for my living (read: Emacs is crucial to me and my family). I have a few packages installed in an ~/elisp/ directory and I load those manually via my ~/.emacs. Over all of these years I have never had Emacs ask, offer, or otherwise point out ELPA. The only reason I know it even exists is because as a GNU maintainer of some emacs extensions, people sometimes asked my why those extensions are not in ELPA. At that point, I needed to try and figure out what ELPA even was (not to mention what MELPA was, and what the difference is between them.) This is good for me because it means that I have never been bothered by Emacs telling me that I need to change my setup and use ELPA instead of what I'm currently using. I want that to continue being the case, as I do not anticipate ELPA ever being relevant to me personally. Emacs isn't a hobby for me; it is a tool I use to earn a salary. However, I am guessing that this may be bad news for people who love and support ELPA, since it means that it is effectively invisible to many emacs users like me. I certainly can't speak on the behalf of the ELPA people, but perhaps they should be thinking about how to explain to emacs users what ELPA is, or why we should even care. If they can show me how ELPA can make Emacs better for my work, then ELPA may become very important to me. Otherwise, I have no incentive to break my current setup, which is precious to me, in order to try out something that may or may not be better. Please don't take this as criticism of ELPA or the efforts of the people who work on it, as it is not intended to be one. Instead, I wanted to share my real-world use of Emacs in relation to ELPA, in case it would be a valuable data-point for the people who are considering the question in the subject of the thread: "What is GNU ELPA?" -- "Cut your own wood and it will warm you twice"