From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Phillip Lord Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [feature/internal-msys] thoughts of a more function windows package Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:43:04 +0000 Message-ID: <87bldcf07b.fsf@russet.org.uk> References: <87pn2dq3xv.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83ft39hnk1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7nppzjy.fsf@russet.org.uk> <838s90hhb6.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh1gircl.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83turofw8r.fsf@gnu.org> <87sg6v76fd.fsf_-_@russet.org.uk> <83czxy7530.fsf@gnu.org> <87zh12grzh.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83wnw659kw.fsf@gnu.org> <87o8higedm.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83sg6t5t86.fsf@gnu.org> <87bldh7xue.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83bldg6h0o.fsf@gnu.org> <87a6sygf0s.fsf@russet.org.uk> <83lfch2gd4.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23905"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Jan 26 11:45:13 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l4LqT-00065Q-5T for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 11:45:13 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:37442 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4LqS-0004Id-4t for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 05:45:12 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:55318) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4LpC-00037B-Im for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 05:43:54 -0500 Original-Received: from cloud103.planethippo.com ([78.129.138.110]:46156) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l4Lp7-0004YP-72; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 05:43:53 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=russet.org.uk; s=default; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=pQ8ZU1px1WQv6bfGZaKGsqNXo/IlQMkHiZ+INyh2bAA=; b=hHHl/zaMRKUCB8GUmRfUJOjz+ 38GNoAsmyqssmcK8Js5a0DPskfyJrwVPBOJP5ZoUwSJhnQ3/87tZr5w8p0wcrna0iYVQUm+/stn4h fqip91YVRJwwIaIHRDUePF5ieWAzDoEv5OLHz97BjqOzcXuWMC4s0j/cY8rR1Mvrq8VikNUOZd2Fs o7WSJE9kypyfCaCLJa42NbsisTxEImFIvu5DLaNLXisFYtQ7PflPOhEQCW9wMcaajcafEVbGU6RkG EBQWkQxSNiTEB9Ju/e3GYQpXlb7neI772Ofx+7Gbr6+PIbMB4fVNe5zwlfI5o4KPWzoDDzFE5QmkS IixSq3OFQ==; Original-Received: from cpc142648-benw12-2-0-cust627.16-2.cable.virginm.net ([82.10.74.116]:39490 helo=russet.org.uk) by cloud103.planethippo.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.93) (envelope-from ) id 1l4LoO-0004Ac-TO; Tue, 26 Jan 2021 10:43:04 +0000 In-Reply-To: <83lfch2gd4.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Mon, 25 Jan 2021 17:20:07 +0200") X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cloud103.planethippo.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - russet.org.uk X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cloud103.planethippo.com: authenticated_id: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk X-Authenticated-Sender: cloud103.planethippo.com: phillip.lord@russet.org.uk Received-SPF: none client-ip=78.129.138.110; envelope-from=phillip.lord@russet.org.uk; helo=cloud103.planethippo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:263451 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: Phillip Lord >> Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org >> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:13:07 +0000 >> >> Eli Zaretskii writes: >> >> >> > They mostly work, until they don't. Like with Cygwin, there are >> >> > subtle incompatibilities, mainly in file names and in communications >> >> > with subprocesses and response to "signals". Encoding defaults are >> >> > also different. >> >> >> >> That's true for the msys2 commands but not the mingw64 ones? >> > >> > Yes. That's why I asked about msys-1.0.dll: the programs that depend >> > on that aren't mingw64 (native) programs. >> >> But, mingw64 does not have all the packages I need. > > Are we talking about you personally, or are we talking about Emacs > users? Emacs users in general. I don't use Emacs for Windows myself, at least not in any routine way. > If the former, then MinGW64 are not the only source of good ports of > Free Software to Windows, far from that. If they don't have some > package, you just go out and look for it elsewhere. I am sure that this is true. But I have to scrape together tools from several different locations, particularly if I have to host it (and thus have the responsibilty of getting all the source), it's not going to happen. I might be able to use a different package manager (like chocolaty); I'd rather use msys2 because I already use it for my build machine. > If we are talking about Emacs users who will download Emacs from the > GNU sites, then I'd say give them only what MinGW64 provides, so that > they could use pacman to easily update that. Those who need more will > have to find and install whatever they need on their own. Telling > them to install MSYS ports instead risks exposing them to subtle > problems, so I wouldn't recommend it. Okay. In which case I'll only add the mingw64 to the path. This excludes git which was one of my main aims to be honest. But at least we can add a spell checker to Emacs. > >> How do people use Emacs on windows? I mean, do they install find, ls, >> git, aspell and all the rest by hand? > > If MinGW doesn't provide those, what else can you do? Me, I ported > some of the packages myself (where I found no ports that were good > enough or new for me), and installed others where I found good ports. > Almost all of my ports are available from the ezwinports site. Give up on these tools till a better solution appears. >> >> Would it be easier to have Emacs allow me to successfully update PATH >> >> during run? >> > >> > Update how? >> >> Using some magic that doesn't exist at the current time. I mean a way >> like did (by fiddling with setenv) that doesn't suffer the problems that >> it causes. > > I don't think this magic can exist. But if someone knows, let them > speak up. I don't know what the problems are that it causes, but again, if it's not simple and we cannot provide a 90/10 solution for changing path within a running Emacs, then I will try something that doesn't need this. Phil