From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Sean Whitton Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: PROPOSAL: Repurpose one key and reserve it for third-party packages Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 14:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: <87blct3pkm.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> References: <7ef75c33936136eb3a20@heytings.org> <87tuqmli7l.fsf@gnus.org> <87r1lpk6ao.fsf@gnus.org> <87im7141wc.fsf@melete.silentflame.com> <83tuqljfvt.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5775"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org, gregory@heytings.org, stefankangas@gmail.com, larsi@gnus.org, monnier@iro.umontreal.ca To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 09 22:22:25 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1l9aSn-0001NW-1p for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 22:22:25 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:44820 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9aSm-0003cS-2X for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 16:22:24 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:32956) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9aQv-0002d7-KN for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 16:20:31 -0500 Original-Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com ([64.147.123.19]:51951) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l9aQo-00066P-8M; Tue, 09 Feb 2021 16:20:27 -0500 Original-Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.internal [10.202.2.44]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id B58E9A17; Tue, 9 Feb 2021 16:20:19 -0500 (EST) Original-Received: from mailfrontend1 ([10.202.2.162]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Tue, 09 Feb 2021 16:20:20 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=spwhitton.name; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-type; s=fm2; bh=5zI0rA4mDFEk0cKM1SUkKouWB0 DEYQE2JfZYZL6D1lQ=; b=OEXVLj2JL6vEn0IOmhhuwOWYEyXpmy652PwyMC8MHT ds71VKvd6j2XBfkFTbFIFWnw64KXLJ0k9McbJLF0zIwbw6gRUCqQx/jJLGUEsZGU D7GAfrGtNxscj8eXos2Oqx5atBp/S69ugynavt0PgQkINVSIXZhaQDto3KscZm9V +fb2yF/jh/q6iy7Xmhrvy4IjzI4nwYaXB+aIn8ny6yRjB7Y9D3WH1S41E2IXJ2wd BUBz44u9pMQAnoNLodTs9Vgr0KbfIVOHQPPiVeqU0+wwHPWZqU+qCgK3GbeptAFq ZOWhw97Tlu5QNdksURfwqZ9rTGQlRBLyPwlTMXcwDv3Q== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-type:date:from:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version:references:subject:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=5zI0rA 4mDFEk0cKM1SUkKouWB0DEYQE2JfZYZL6D1lQ=; b=vpv5cG+4izsr6bmc1HlRbN YCxoidqLZncyT9KzN5X5s3kDAx+1mJEctVu1WNfYUUlY/JJkK7YMDVro7qiXBDTj XsAgwt9gapt3z+J4tFZ+9LT/UdeQh8FOaj5wW3KuGZrIWECE8gl010DQJo3+V7yF 5M777J0EW9kEhBWMiZweOSOVQ0BtkO9ddj97TKeIZszyjNqEAHz5XZkoIjbf1Cg/ EdZeIBNIOy0951SrALKdWMWZ8fAC0wen/2zpqH16/O02QEzZgIWCrjGThP1Mh0TH rmHLrkITY4nZyTjVIaP0JaKEcbH3FhuO86pgx5z26m0Aye/lERKcBpkCpt5u8eZA == X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduledrheehgddugeelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhephffvufgjfhffkfggtgesthdtredttddttdenucfhrhhomhepufgvrghnucgh hhhithhtohhnuceoshhpfihhihhtthhonhesshhpfihhihhtthhonhdrnhgrmhgvqeenuc ggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeegtddvheegfffhffdvfeefhffgjefflefhteevffffkeetgfdt jedtiedvtdevheenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfh hrohhmpehsphifhhhithhtohhnsehsphifhhhithhtohhnrdhnrghmvg X-ME-Proxy: In-Reply-To: <83tuqljfvt.fsf@gnu.org> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=64.147.123.19; envelope-from=spwhitton@spwhitton.name; helo=wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264246 Archived-At: Hello, On Tue 09 Feb 2021 at 07:43PM +02, Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> From: Sean Whitton >> Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 09:54:59 -0700 >> Cc: Gregory Heytings , >> Stefan Kangas , rms@gnu.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org >> >> Aren't the current bindings under M-o intended for that halcyon future >> in which we can use Emacs as a word processor, not just a text editor? >> Like enriched-mode, but for file formats like .odt, where buffer faces >> set with M-o get translated into something in the file format upon save. >> >> I assume that most of the bindings under M-o were made with that sort of >> usage of Emacs in mind. It strikes me as a bit sad to unbind M-o as it >> would sort of be saying that we no longer think Emacs is ever going to >> be much use for editing non-plain text. > > We could make these bindings local to the modes where they are > relevant, for example Text mode and its descendants. There's no need > for a global binding, at least not necessarily. I agree that it would be good to find a non-global way to do this. Perhaps we could set up a major mode to be inherited by modes like enriched-mode, which sets up a binding which is at least as convenient to use as M-o is right now? That way we can ensure that the bindings to set faces are consistent between major modes, which is what we would be at risk of losing if we drop the global binding. For the sake of ease of use I'd suggest replacing M-o b with C-c C-c b. Does this sound sensible? It would be a shame if we ended up with each possible WYSIWYG mode defining its own face-setting bindings. Also, new non-WYSIWYG modes could re-use the same bindings to, e.g., insert asterisks around text meant to be bold. -- Sean Whitton