From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Current mode command discovery Date: Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:28:38 +0100 Message-ID: <87blckvux5.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87v9aubm96.fsf@gnus.org> <83a6s6bkrg.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtw6bkjo.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7qbjn2.fsf@gnu.org> <87eehi820x.fsf@gnus.org> <83v9at9xel.fsf@gnu.org> <87wnv8xlqa.fsf@gnus.org> <838s7o9g90.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="38114"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Feb 16 17:57:02 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lC3eo-0009n6-FH for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:57:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41470 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC3en-0000fG-GJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:57:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:47434) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC3Di-0005vD-N0 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:29:02 -0500 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:44080) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lC3DW-0004JE-TW; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 11:29:02 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=cwpxj2JxwXGoetAnk55FbGzfyIFuhn4K1eNmTzqi0II=; b=TQnnpSaf0Dd4MSGLS5Onx3hI+B 75rqORptKvQ+Wt9sgNhVCj0QnCK+OL7ltv9Zd8EvI4U3yHVlQjVHq03Y4/fm3at5VcN9eim9Qxyc9 96Cg+i7HWHHp81em1PDKImziKgtydIUjfrn5XRHUD5ngAYHD9ofMDqMUVg9JSEQVC0DY=; Original-Received: from cm-84.212.202.86.getinternet.no ([84.212.202.86] helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1lC3DL-0006V9-UU; Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:28:45 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAIVBMVEVYAQFZExRIAQE4 AQEkAAAcAAALAAFiAAA9DxAuEBH////9nmypAAAAAWJLR0QKaND0VgAAAAd0SU1FB+UCEBAUGm9u qTEAAAF4SURBVDjLnZNNjoMwDIWtFIntHAGFqWZb8bOYXUWdC4DdG5Q1ahc5w9x6nEBI2sJixkgg 8vFs5zkAfGgfZT2HLgCU1jUY3owbjOMmGIGvW+u0B3APGAF/q5ECqquyrkwEIVVnc2ttlihoUfQA cGhC9ZCKtG7FjBabVbEkgjzrIDtb2/rvrgFo7iaDlDeXR9j5nMkQn1omxVy5jWMEl6qU56lsyDCl YChcp/3UCsAIGAvICE0PCp8VxQSHEyhp7sBB4Vw428kN1M3VfsrKqjjrIj/Kc5hyeyfGtV3k/o5y FJovpUtKihvus04pOPQPVxrXCSINmbhEQ/3w63hbgCjU0Xv5BgaNTtmVM1hT+UsULhYwklfIu3cP OSjGORXOgCJYagQF8UtxDAB3AP4DXFKADhDGiCY6kBDaUOym8uAnBXJWVsCLJQt46mrc23mi8MDg W3E3jwBebafgbgT0mgr9ulPQc1dyhiWBibML4LtC9Aff/6Nzs+7+C5goU5g2IF0EAAAAJXRFWHRk YXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTAyLTE2VDE2OjIwOjI2KzAwOjAw/0QTSQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2Rp ZnkAMjAyMS0wMi0xNlQxNjoyMDoyNiswMDowMI4Zq/UAAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: Afrodeutsche's _Break Before Make_: "And!" In-Reply-To: <838s7o9g90.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Tue, 16 Feb 2021 17:36:27 +0200") Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:264894 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: > Thus, to use this new command, the user should know, up front, that he > or she wants to _invoke_ some command from the set of those applicable > to the current modes. I'm wondering how will users know that. When I'm in some new and strange mode, and I know that I want to do something with the data there, then getting a list of those commands, and then being able to execute them seems convenient. As has been pointed out several times, various packages already exist that does exactly this -- but badly, since they basically guess at what commands are applicable. So I think it's established that this is something that (some) people want. > By contrast, "C-h m" is typically invoked when users are looking for > information about the current mode, not because they necessarily want > to invoke some command. I use `C-h m' (and `C-h b') all the time to find a mode specific command, but can quite recall what it's called, or what key it's bound to. This new command would make that process more efficient. >> This thread is only about this theoretical new command. > > Then how about if we stop mentioning M-x in this thread? It is > utterly confusing to mention M-x when we actually are talking about > something else. Some of the suggestions voiced here made me nervous > because I thought people were suggesting changes in how M-x works; now > I'm relieved to learn that no change to M-x's MO was meant. It's a new M-x-like command, but with a different predicate. I don't think you'll find people are going to stop mentioning M-x here. -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no