From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: sqlite3 Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:33:46 +0100 Message-ID: <87bl1p2t91.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87tufmjyai.fsf@gnus.org> <877dcil2sj.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <87czm98qi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87o85tcwm0.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <874k7ljwkr.fsf@gnus.org> <87fsr5cuzq.fsf@ericabrahamsen.net> <878rwx8mdn.fsf@gnu.org> <87r1aphuei.fsf@gnus.org> <87wnke4p21.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="28716"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: eric@ericabrahamsen.net, cesar mena , Richard Stallman , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Pip Cet Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 10 01:35:01 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvTsL-0007F8-BG for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:35:01 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52154 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvTsJ-0005aJ-TO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:34:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:38744) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvTrH-0004pf-Of for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:33:57 -0500 Original-Received: from [2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2] (port=39344 helo=quimby.gnus.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mvTrG-0000fH-5q; Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:33:55 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:In-Reply-To:Date: References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=hfHPpWqZyqYMKcnCwPH+uNNWD+fwmj95/xH6klzTIJU=; b=ZPW75fQWropj+rfbG4zADpKpUh 4WsCmeQ+BArFkrkbXjXwUtcfAHHSod1FciyUJS0CLw1v0AzOlKhSl39W3l/K6TRnuUHIJkLhxhPWB +gCUYjWYAs+by9CjHYRF/VkOofkv/wALtkUDGn+R4JyILuhRHUfG1IZs8K+4KHAfI7LY=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=xo) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mvTr8-0006U0-R2; Fri, 10 Dec 2021 01:33:49 +0100 Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAElBMVEWZb3hlVl+/qKtM MzwkFhn///8fEXZMAAAAAWJLR0QF+G/pxwAAAAd0SU1FB+UMCgAPBKDl9SIAAAGuSURBVDjLrZNr kuMgDIQFzgHAcABZcwF7xAHioPufaVt+TZLZ/NiqVVXi4I9u9CBEiJDfIwnlv8ZnQB9A/n8ghRMU Xfz7NzDrWYHzsq/jAUpXAMQpOUFTtUX3eAFmzdYD7Ganwsw0/wYwsl7nopqmw+wArjBFziIDNMuT ogOoAy5a+gl869AbcosuaesFZhGpXWfCMyDzC3zjxa37fjxRa3AQxgHWwrUvlCmGpiNkhCkKuxPF MrMStU0IACwZnyhfD8k0oAczxwO4WCSNQqGarcJUNqvB/HC4ETIygxM80Uip9mAkylm4devYMnVC cWrtQRTlhhzqUtatJsqKwuwuLPE2EpUYvchqAMiv2SgcCzEl8SLZHBisXBINCn9LVHvZASLV2b7j 4Af7zVDS7bUH8lFLUUr11RPYYuWhhR1s63bJJm15A836UhJdhMr+E81Eh4TqCcbp2NDu3iPM8wD3 Q0vb1Igj22uQd4aZ4vQOfHgSpiM7v0VPgGlIGB1ull1VUfJBoKkbeLbSu58ReHg/A32VIH54by+g dcwT1+LrXdFswX8m/JR+WX2Ifwd/ABSkr20AjVmfAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOmNyZWF0ZQAyMDIxLTEy LTEwVDAwOjE1OjA0KzAwOjAwXinEUQAAACV0RVh0ZGF0ZTptb2RpZnkAMjAyMS0xMi0xMFQwMDox NTowNCswMDowMC90fO0AAAAASUVORK5CYII= X-Now-Playing: New Order's _Power, Corruption & Lies_: "Blue Monday" In-Reply-To: (Pip Cet's message of "Thu, 9 Dec 2021 19:39:02 +0000") X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -35 X-Spam_score: -3.6 X-Spam_bar: --- X-Spam_report: (-3.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:281559 Archived-At: Pip Cet writes: > I agree that .newsrc.eld and the Gnus registry, as you describe them, > have problems that need to be fixed. Making those permanently > unfixable by switching to a binary-only format seems like a bad idea > to me, unless there are overwhelming advantages that I'm just failing > to see so far. "Need to be fixed"? They've been like this for three decades now, and it's amusing how they suddenly "need" to be fixed when they're brought up as an example for how textual data isn't really a panacea for editability, diffing, etc. The Gnus data is edited within Gnus, because editing the data outside of Gnus will lead to breakage. >> Putting it in VC is meaningless. > > How so? I usually have my home directory under version control, and > git's xdelta implementation should deal with alists just fine (and > produce readable output at sub-line granularity)... It's meaningless because you can't really do anything with that information. >> And it's not diffable or VC-able >> without special software. > > Possibly so. That still means you're making problems that are > currently coincidental fundamentally unfixable. ? >> An .sqlite file isn't pretending to be user editable in vi, but there's >> a plethora of software out there do do all things you'd expect, and (of > > How much of it is GNU software? You mean percentage wise? I don't understand the issue. >> course) Emacs will come with a mode to inspect and edit these files more >> free-form. > > Indeed, I would have considered it a good idea to introduce such a > mode well before proposing (as you might or might not have done) that > random packages start using a new library. Er... I should have written a new library to allow editing SQLite files before starting a discussion about whether Emacs should have in-core SQLite support. Check. > And a checksum that changes with no underlying changes in the data is > problematic. Usually not a problem with ELisp dumps, but it usually is > with sqlite files. There are programs to do all this. > And, merely as a request, I'd still like to hear a further convincing > case for all this being necessary in the first place. So far I've > heard "Gnus" and "emoji favorites". I can't currently use the former > and the latter is inaccessible to me on multiple levels, so I'm left > with my "binary junk in .emacs.d" impression of what you're actually > proposing. Emacs needs easy, performant access to large data storage, and this gives us that, and more. And it's embarrassing that Emacs doesn't have this already. (For instance, my imdb mode stashes about 12GB worth of data in sqlite and is simple and performant.) -- (domestic pets only, the antidote for overdose, milk.) bloggy blog: http://lars.ingebrigtsen.no