From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Stephen Berman Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Platform independent graphical display for Emacs Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2021 11:16:01 +0100 Message-ID: <87bl16b95q.fsf@gmx.net> References: <87ilvgwfor.fsf@telefonica.net> <83a6grx1o9.fsf@gnu.org> <834k6zwvi1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h7azilmu.fsf@yahoo.com> <87sfujh4a2.fsf@yahoo.com> <877dbuhm6j.fsf@yahoo.com> <87tueyg5gc.fsf@yahoo.com> <87lf0a2uq0.fsf@gnus.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="15108"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Po Lu , Stefan Kangas , Drew Adams , "xenodasein--- via Emacs development discussions." To: Lars Ingebrigtsen Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Fri Dec 24 11:17:02 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hdG-0003fK-Bp for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 11:17:02 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:42824 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hdF-0000Gc-3S for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 05:17:01 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:53364) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hcU-00082T-AJ for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 05:16:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.18]:34499) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n0hcS-0000Ur-Ii for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 05:16:14 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1640340963; bh=vr+RBMT8ClpE0SW9w8vITtn9zq7ojRlUT17C5qqQ/ko=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=IDr2r8uMvNCt+vaDYMgusFRpmmuiJJck40FtSdDQCjBFCiLPeq7aSuww0EqZp58iH rxd4hPvFOYZx8mG/pV6tXnstiZZAkB/GrX2KZkg+PYbFJsXW8+UdhM++5a4hSnRR83 XPQQdwP6Amk2Z5t4E3l1hySpKa0f61b9vKQAJgDA= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Original-Received: from strobelfs ([89.246.38.116]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MD9T1-1n9GBn3WBF-0094lh; Fri, 24 Dec 2021 11:16:02 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87lf0a2uq0.fsf@gnus.org> (Lars Ingebrigtsen's message of "Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:55:03 +0100") X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:FGGvQMqpjwMEZznKZUUo4GlVbNmqW09KfSOu2BuTeJH3ek59wu8 puxLAkbc/PEA08+M9effzMveRkP91BoNLaIJnnkXvd5JV5mCGgSxCrkU7kg7GNYQSucvbcS Bo4OGJq6HZ+3NIZ1qvCMkgy3AFg1ou7AKVG3yY0YUr4EVJXk1P5j1qrck/uGmhNm+uWbvBn 9vAsbzNL/w9K5KKcORqRQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:CIhoG4dWpTo=:BSvEO6BDO8iDtuL3MMCcgh BMcApvMhjg8+tpsarBJGivEdw3wGyPZSFG3/LECEQChMlV9WcsreiDoKBf0aLmkfBNpv8hxSX wz+4ze3iUhQ+V4mxIKEEDE6eWcaOdeCli/ZB9KALgziGuXhsoyz71pDLLVbz7ChtuSwbz3/8T 68vp6G61U0jXl1B/1FeIdWCmx2HzQXxuWvT0LMm9gbhYyywMxG6+N3MJ1zJHugG1cKiN/3hLp E63gS7iCRYeuA7CdRowGMu4IymdL1uWcTjv20DA3ftFU0YGmCiv5DOdyrGPStkPCWdE+/j/Y7 q/ImeIhY78Y2aoEmbKf70xLXss8vP5++UVF9yTOsmKqJddi7i36i2wI/i77R6ZoUMv2voz76a tKRmO3I57rYM1WIiw7KqUblryRhOot5emBv5mIhthJfzJhsW7ajSo9MYfif7ER0yDsqrlZDwi ZLhaCTMGduqjysU6N+IlI39g1jbfy1YSld5FvNXvMSDMfjQK/NhjBK8YpRAM3bsG7gd0jhpFk IhFdpxirXnWJ3A7SEd2RrCLgvnVVrQQn/rKSgrjI391P1uuk14y95SFsYwMmDwCXmtWyXffA1 lwToiKUtOYhtq4mN7zlA6HmeHSImem7Bp2ipVFnSzAJdpke3xlKzw9rZ3Mmo7T23pOIc8xlyr O7ppuMnbDt0ArI5hpO6CY5YZSUH3KUReZSJ3rlMSSCLMiw5v2jdIHPBsVXDxzO/1SNtzyt4BU VUeqQsy5rv1d9dXiF4DClEvwul7sjPZ02D1LBisZftASQ9ee7YQoCrfQSFpAvgmItEoIROC/ Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.18; envelope-from=stephen.berman@gmx.net; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:283116 Archived-At: On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 10:55:03 +0100 Lars Ingebrigtsen wrote: > There's definitely different cultures surrounding the toolkit issue. > Some people want all their applications on the OS they use to look the > same, and some people want the application they use to look the same on > all OS-es. I think the astounding success of VSCode points to the first > group of people putting up with it if they have to, but there's a lot of > grumbling. > > Anyway, this inspired me to have a look at the no-toolkit build of Emacs > for the first time in years, and... it's a bit rough. There's no HiDPI > support, apparently, so all the icons/menus look unusably tiny on this > screen. And the scroll bar apparently works the same as an xterm in > 1989? That is, left/right mouse clicks goes down/up, and you can't drag > it at all. > > So it's no wonder that few people are using that. But if want to cater > more to people that want Emacs to look the same on all operating > systems, there's at least a base to start working from, because it seems > to work fine otherwise. Perhaps the main issue keeping me from regularly using the no-toolkit build is the inability to navigate menu-bar menus and select entries from them with the keyboard (I disable the menu bar but not infrequently pop up the global menu with F10). If I had enough knowledge and time, this would be one of the first things I would fix. Steve Berman