From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Tim Cross Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Org mode and Emacs Date: Sun, 12 Jun 2022 15:27:47 +1000 Message-ID: <87bkuywhud.fsf@gmail.com> References: <8735gj4ceo.fsf@gnu.org> <87ee038ipt.fsf@gmx.de> <87o7z61v59.fsf@gmail.com> <87bkv527p5.fsf@gmail.com> <835yld93w7.fsf@gnu.org> <877d5t0yrn.fsf@gmail.com> <87r140yuof.fsf@gmail.com> <875yl9e7zm.fsf@gmail.com> <87y1y2irhn.fsf@yahoo.com> <87wndmaaow.fsf@localhost> <87tu8qa8cz.fsf@localhost> <87fskawjvw.fsf@gmail.com> <87wndmh3ix.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="4706"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.7.27; emacs 28.1.50 Cc: David Masterson , Ihor Radchenko , Richard Stallman , monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, acm@muc.de, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 12 07:52:44 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1o0GWh-00014k-Va for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 07:52:43 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57724 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0GWg-0000Oh-Q9 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 01:52:42 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:59668) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0GUV-000805-UA for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 01:50:31 -0400 Original-Received: from mail-pj1-x1030.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030]:33328) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1o0GUU-0005wa-Ab; Sun, 12 Jun 2022 01:50:27 -0400 Original-Received: by mail-pj1-x1030.google.com with SMTP id hv24-20020a17090ae41800b001e33eebdb5dso6194178pjb.0; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:50:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date:in-reply-to :message-id:mime-version; bh=nRDGrNbIAXVgUW8R4DWG2DnIMVMvTFoIAzqTuqEUXTM=; b=KZGXsuYDOzBRPb8LT4xNrgsHqACVIguvI0r4GlFmNCrkORsWbSFS4/WzYo3Ru1DUpH vs6yyUcr38mCKofNkpauTBuCfkqsx1d+QSA1iIpyKJD/w4kPzRinjXt5uARqbGeNdrJ6 bm4z+N2Io/M7QlHJXsy/EwijpzTyiNIVilwqO3b2oT0OMXWjTzru+1+yLumrateO1cXb 0MyP4F46svJ26H02O6yuHhzYHAkNbeDGDRI/DcgTBbaiojpm2dfyQhtPueEbZ8BIJ2kX fl8h7Ew5AP8PvYqyX3ta9LyMHlLyq+29ILzXkmmXjsIdZZW3Tg0kqC3UyP7xQc645KMk 0yPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:date :in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version; bh=nRDGrNbIAXVgUW8R4DWG2DnIMVMvTFoIAzqTuqEUXTM=; b=K8XUiGq8SEMIbBxWOMYqPpAK4S45PVdRPW0nosYOuN6TNmxtcRlIgTZvE390jtkizO FyP4BtM5Y/qa5fECeVdcrIFLaqPYjlX6mT4ldrwLCKE3uCoj7Jt9bLqFgmaVUTrHcQhh 10We9WpML/nnD87uXlkXePCfe/tfj9SoJegNMXjwnodLJjuAgNN/u3TYdio6xp9ptR72 1dog3SrEd+8iCE7hYwnnP15keqvjEv7THnUbEUil1UiNfVOZzeahSQel38pUpz2xP57E SfEmjYIWDO4DYYTV1b2lGJIP959bq71hTPdRcIszPT4B4A7/7joAIQr7kv5R/nALl7kf a9MA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303oeofaMVqRc+tRKUcLULPN/3Be3lBC8a1PDw/nI2ig8S9xaHN ydG1YVO520qkIhXSFK4kXVR1DaSwmHYyQw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJw/XD9HXADUcp9umtyHwKvXNnj2cRpEWy5JpVZtjw+tL5BorjGrlewptujy0y5jQlsk/bmxQQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:8592:b0:1dd:bab:d286 with SMTP id m18-20020a17090a859200b001dd0babd286mr8667960pjn.143.1655013024220; Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:50:24 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from dingbat (2001-44b8-31f2-bb00-63fa-329c-dbc6-d47e.static.ipv6.internode.on.net. [2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:63fa:329c:dbc6:d47e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id jc10-20020a17090325ca00b0015e8d4eb1c6sm2433713plb.16.2022.06.11.22.50.21 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sat, 11 Jun 2022 22:50:23 -0700 (PDT) In-reply-to: <87wndmh3ix.fsf@yahoo.com> Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1030; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1030.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:291070 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: > Tim Cross writes: > >>> But Elisp is not portable to a non-Emacs system (say, iPhone). In the >>> long run, it would be better to define a "parseable" language as the >>> standard basis for Org. From that, people can develop (parts of) Org on >>> other platforms (Vim, Beorg, Orgzly) and test/prove that they are >>> compatible with version X of the language. I think Organice was doing >>> this, but I haven't looked at it deeply. > >> This is all part of the aims and process. However, the first step is to >> develop a robust elisp based parser. This helps to ensure the org syntax >> is consistent and helps identifies ambiguities which need to be fixed as >> well as provides a reference implementation which developers can use to > > It is not the goal of Emacs to support tyrant devices such as the iPhone > running proprietary operating systems such as iOS. > > If people are going to refactor Org mode, I hope they will not do it > with support for iPhones in mind. There has never been suggestion that what we are doing is to facilitate development on non-free platforms. However, if you develop good clean code and clear algorithms which others are able to use as a reference to understand the syntax and semantics of a system, you cannot control how they will use that information. In fact, it can be argued that making such information readily available and accessible is a large part of the freedoms being promoted by the FSF. This is completely different from, for example, providing an interface which can be used by a non-free platform. Besides, if org is as bad and difficult to learn as you have indicated in other posts, nobody will bother implementing it on those platforms you seem so threatened by anyway!