From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: contributing to Emacs Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:50:28 +0200 Message-ID: <87bkhddnv1.fsf@web.de> References: <83v8fnslfz.fsf@gnu.org> <87v8fnh1h2.fsf@web.de> <83mt0zs9rc.fsf@gnu.org> <0a968a4e1b267c0f15dd237e6ea12a709fc06d5e.camel@yandex.ru> <838rcisj7o.fsf@gnu.org> <6537fa5fa5c1fe8437ed99ee0988e35895f5a54b.camel@yandex.ru> <8423a35750d8d8e0437c7708f6b4d0bbdfdb7fe0.camel@yandex.ru> <87o7ldf7ky.fsf@web.de> <83ttv5nm03.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfapdq1r.fsf@web.de> <83o7ldnjtj.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="21478"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: mu4e 1.10.2; emacs 29.0.90 Cc: hi-angel@yandex.ru, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Jun 18 13:14:20 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqMN-0005QA-Ha for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:14:19 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqM6-0000Dn-FK; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:14:02 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqM5-0000DD-AU for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:14:01 -0400 Original-Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qAqM3-0007eb-Av; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 07:14:01 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=s29768273; t=1687086835; x=1687691635; i=arne_bab@web.de; bh=SBz56Rhgn+N47IdOPkPY1UWFRqhy/OVuj+hELYoD7h8=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:In-reply-to; b=Vu7CyppkH71twv2luRCc3M2Hrb4fKR2fFyUfIWp1aPW3XaaPxSzsZn5wNNiNKc/wHyX8v2v eZoEISs0AHWl5Vt7K4kncQNiTANjaqRDixsyQ1JFwc1FqtOaNH7Ojm6Wp4xAox1WU1/FeoHbd mlk4PmPrQcO3VX3ha1eijnu76H0gVHu310HqDBogIYiYo+YbV64i0IWWZoCTL3VdlPPc11txG tU+zpV8HeUGq8Lzi1RZBKG+f12nSfofvZn2REg0IjApLm5MUmtW5W7zSmdamj4ImV4DgtoouR Q5cuxLWfoeAt+C98/1CwNmUPmUMh4U0JK1hXWfc1aLGA8IG7gILg== X-UI-Sender-Class: 814a7b36-bfc1-4dae-8640-3722d8ec6cd6 Original-Received: from fluss ([84.165.25.222]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MeDMb-1pa7xU0P8p-00bGoM; Sun, 18 Jun 2023 13:13:55 +0200 In-reply-to: <83o7ldnjtj.fsf@gnu.org> X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:TfA+pu2W+Z7NectLi012icW/J1mfpJZ3pKggQc0R2FUFMDw75wA Ow8NAPFB5j2ZFmIHUwEJU1NrYTeweqQPE66Bu9uw/YkqvGBq7+QEfU933EQmYzSOikQc6rF plJjbKomCruPSG4pxx5rpoRXA2N1/hG0bgbGOAVsPLV+Nz3A8FsIP8ksAjLIn+hJvOE1L1E x9QiPlnEoPR2noLkXzmog== UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:bjcpcIfBpWM=;YkOHlKCC2s8IH9+lxVAeEbnBJjB dXqzHF0aUfmKAIcPfF93yDnt6VF/QpYUn6fvDKMpq7AXNuRo0UKYxRwMi6Th65qsG4iFTEwed KUlxoZ+m8V2w+lBRhxZE9SGvUMCzm7i+3xwYa8+sR/BDWfTq5NJnIpiuD/6eAo3PL++KLCPHR W1AwptIgSpB5VTjEIhZ8Uq1mMcZn7ZDkqSV2W0UJt3VPXUXWpeT/fgpEpmUcR4NK81rdIDzjL YSz9tBL9hdTkQhOIXY6lReY6b7JV6Z2XyaT9SzfnRF8AQ7PGD0/Sr4Dz/33sryiB7V4WEb26g Td8POKeiQcrllDHFdg/9X/EL56E0dbVtku1DzoMXn0NIydZfDEgEMrmU7Rag8e7pfm4P6aIDn owsUdNIeo8psVW3RoATuuE3XAhxuCOXRVPhYjNorrDU7fvpWWfI0a/5El4n9ifnau/wdsJT8O hA+vzHTlVHr1PbEDeoQjvM6nvAwG5BmTtHx5lFWGxPTBT7wmbXrQ4odtRZ39S6BnzlAYWo4fo AGwGBhYI1JurRvao/g5Q2EnYWmNxc0uftlnXIgfyocgtMCeFb5p6gx5JlAmEmeSaw5BgiG4qU tYpWuzoGxWVkirAF5THOP0azERxm0tQfkz1eO+qQO3esMd8+iRSQ2lD6rIT93fLlIgC8w3UQR 1sS5tXAxkIIpFWBZ/mLrwjJuigtYMEO6QcZQu2qM0gc3CFRGW4QUrv1ihYzC8Zu/th/o0XI+G KnEOkR1vxKe9g75d5aewN1dBFTLHsbNTPO3GpnGoY6gvQfRDRwTUo5R5d9k+h5LD8Erg7owU Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.78; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:306965 Archived-At: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" >> Cc: hi-angel@yandex.ru, ams@gnu.org, luangruo@yahoo.com, emacs-devel@gnu= .org >> Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2023 12:19:45 +0200 >>=20 >> > People keep asking for more and more details to be described there, so >> > what you expect doesn't stand the test of time and user expectations. >>=20 >> What would you do if CONTRIBUTING were a user interface? Would you >> include every idea someone has? > > Who said anything about including "every idea"? Sorry about that, it was too careless wording. I meant that=20 > We try very hard to > include there only what's really necessary and non-obvious, you can > search the archives for discussions about CONTRIBUTE to see it for > yourself. But still, the instructions grow over time, because people > ask questions about the details, and enough people here consider some > of those details worthy to be included. With instructions it=E2=80=99s similar as with code: At some point it=E2=80= =99s necessary to refactor, because incremental changes resulted in something that=E2=80=99s harder to work with than necessary. There are explanations *why* something is as it is =E2=80=94 both in CONTRIBUTING and in Sending Patches. These are not necessary for someone wanting to submit a patch, but they are necessary for someone wanting to improve the instructions or wondering "why that rule?" =E2=80=94 which at l= east to me is a common question when I see a list of rules. =E2=87=92 not for first contact, but useful at the second or third patch. >> > It is clear that you personally may not need everything there, but >> > CONTRIBUTE is not for you and me, or others like we. >>=20 >> For whom *is* CONTRIBUTE? > > For people who only start contributing and need to study our > conventions and requirements. If they bother reading the file, of > course. (If they don't, we will inform them about the relevant > conventions as part of the patch review process.) This informing about convention causes load on the maintainers, so I think we should increase the number of people who read instructions and get enough information from them that they need not be informed about convention =E2=87=92 The shorter version I wrote is intended to reduce that= load. At this point I=E2=80=99d say that this may be better as a bug report for t= he website. Where can I send these? Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. draketo.de --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmSO5vIQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD61BQD/9VuIUNycMhvDMvUsgjocdqhg5xTGPmylZf b7XNrsEzvYaNSc9Gl/9NqSp3ShMMOwJrMNZnnOZyuTTaXxDwRpYnBPvdwcwNoI+A Mgw/IzRdsPc5QrR9MM3X0t0iYgZZGICJAnTokK+Nu43yPRaBsDKJLoq0B+TFmiNQ k+it6+jk5TSZXdJhnVpxMxZtPXy+Efvp17UBslaNf0b13lR/l6wYo9Q5AFMOmgLt F2HqqNiE+ReOlXomsq1X6DRpyH61Xo27W7kUEKGccuoqoNq/pm/MFClu+my3kryn Xu78JiePx0sKaB/6aZ7rGbZ62rXlG4ZrHiv80aQsKQyyETy43BNQfYe4WzqtH5nz o+3PkPk95USGQZIPKAJzL1qG044SGB/RhEV0VVod1cDr+1zGIKNQXpLipjJk2O0X 51BOoTztuRrdaXYFZW3GaJVQOPM92FCqj9QxhQxwS1UHdUwO3BklzqV51+MdWmMi Vt5iMaXz5yj1x18FPKGJWD+HMBJAG81f6da1ZBeTtCHGkE8S2i0IL3x5sHNPTPdy yKX+KR242O+WmwbzbvP6NxLoxZtpAZ+2BxoaAKVVt9p/KMfFWSmx5YOtgF8JMCHd cWBkznawEEUOMpnaqyfJ35ZGB//61isQsiul0fEJeFeaHWR4gC3UGsFWEJyJQGpK pIhFxq66PYjEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmSO5vIQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSIAUA/9kBajV2CjDPKmZjQOSl8KD+/uE rrq1WRaMYyN2T/+M9DEnkIG5gL6LE3zzDa7fqQ7V2lPpAnJgrciAV7B5BIqfHZRy nQrwbl1rfKsQAYfC9FKrUkblc/pUVz2dMtLKfB4IXxxqVe+8VDqSPiroLsFyJXqe vTTbNcwJcY2LHKt4yQ== =o5cT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--