ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Reiner Steib]

Hi,

recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
`change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
ChangeLog files?

Bye, Reiner.

[1]

,----[ <f1> f change-log-mode RET ]
| change-log-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `add-log.el'.
| (change-log-mode)
| 
| Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode.
| Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74.
`----
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Kim F. Storm]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:

> Hi,
>
> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
> `change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
> ChangeLog files?

I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters
per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars,
but I'm not sure that is really ok).

IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this.

>
> Bye, Reiner.
>
> [1]
>
> ,----[ <f1> f change-log-mode RET ]
> | change-log-mode is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `add-log.el'.
> | (change-log-mode)
> | 
> | Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode.
> | Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74.
> `----
> -- 
>        ,,,
>       (o o)
> ---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Michaël Cadilhac]

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storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
>> `change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
>> ChangeLog files?
>
> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters
> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars,
> but I'm not sure that is really ok).
>
> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this.

  BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ?

  AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used  only in mails or news to allow
  easy replies under 80 columns.

  I don't see the point here, any clue ?

-- 
 |      Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac   |   Would someone please DTRT with this  |
 |         Epita/LRDE Promo 2007   |         then ACK?                      |
 | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m   |           -- Richard Stallman          |
 `--  -   JID: micha@amessage.be --'                                   -  --'

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Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Reiner Steib]

On Tue, May 16 2006, Kim F. Storm wrote:

> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
>> `change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
>> ChangeLog files?
>
> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters
> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files [...]

Thanks.

> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this.

ACK, either this or in `change-log-mode'.

Bye, Reiner.
-- 
       ,,,
      (o o)
---ooO-(_)-Ooo---  |  PGP key available  |  http://rsteib.home.pages.de/

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Miles Bader]

Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.

Some people seem to have hooks or something to do this automatically,
with the result that when they touch a changelog to document their own
change, a bunch of unrelated changes get made to the changelog.
[Or perhaps they do so manually whenever they touch the changelog.]

This often makes the changelog prettier, but can be quite annoying for
merging...

-Miles

-- 
Freedom's just another word, for nothing left to lose   --Janis Joplin

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Michaël Cadilhac]

[-- Attachment #1.1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1211 bytes --]

michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes:

> storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
>
>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
>>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
>>> `change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
>>> ChangeLog files?
>>
>> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters
>> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars,
>> but I'm not sure that is really ok).
>>
>> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this.
>
>   BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ?
>
>   AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used  only in mails or news to allow
>   easy replies under 80 columns.
>
>   I don't see the point here, any clue ?

    Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79 in
    add-log.el ?

    Making this  customizable is probably  not a good solution,  as we
    should  then,  for  the  sake  of  consistency,  set  left-margin,
    tab-width, ... to be customizable too.

    Patch attached, if needed.


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Index: lisp/ChangeLog
===================================================================
RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/ChangeLog,v
retrieving revision 1.9586
diff -c -B -b -r1.9586 ChangeLog
*** lisp/ChangeLog	23 May 2006 11:23:25 -0000	1.9586
--- lisp/ChangeLog	23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000
***************
*** 1,3 ****
--- 1,7 ----
+ 2006-05-23  Michaël Cadilhac  <michael.cadilhac@lrde.org>
+ 
+ 	* add-log.el (change-log-mode): Change `fill-column' from 74 to 79.
+ 
  2006-05-23  Thien-Thi Nguyen  <ttn@gnu.org>
  
  	* emacs-lisp/ewoc.el (ewoc-delete): New function.
Index: lisp/add-log.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/add-log.el,v
retrieving revision 1.177
diff -c -B -b -r1.177 add-log.el
*** lisp/add-log.el	9 May 2006 22:58:54 -0000	1.177
--- lisp/add-log.el	23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000
***************
*** 685,697 ****
  ;;;###autoload
  (define-derived-mode change-log-mode text-mode "Change Log"
    "Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode.
! Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 74.
  New log entries are usually made with \\[add-change-log-entry] or \\[add-change-log-entry-other-window].
  Each entry behaves as a paragraph, and the entries for one day as a page.
  Runs `change-log-mode-hook'.
  \\{change-log-mode-map}"
    (setq left-margin 8
! 	fill-column 74
  	indent-tabs-mode t
  	tab-width 8)
    (set (make-local-variable 'fill-paragraph-function)
--- 685,697 ----
  ;;;###autoload
  (define-derived-mode change-log-mode text-mode "Change Log"
    "Major mode for editing change logs; like Indented Text Mode.
! Prevents numeric backups and sets `left-margin' to 8 and `fill-column' to 79.
  New log entries are usually made with \\[add-change-log-entry] or \\[add-change-log-entry-other-window].
  Each entry behaves as a paragraph, and the entries for one day as a page.
  Runs `change-log-mode-hook'.
  \\{change-log-mode-map}"
    (setq left-margin 8
! 	fill-column 79
  	indent-tabs-mode t
  	tab-width 8)
    (set (make-local-variable 'fill-paragraph-function)
Index: lisp/textmodes/ispell.el
===================================================================
RCS file: /sources/emacs/emacs/lisp/textmodes/ispell.el,v
retrieving revision 1.199
diff -c -B -b -r1.199 ispell.el
*** lisp/textmodes/ispell.el	21 May 2006 20:25:43 -0000	1.199
--- lisp/textmodes/ispell.el	23 May 2006 18:31:37 -0000
***************
*** 2572,2586 ****
        (or no-error
  	  (error "There is no ispell process running!"))
      (if ispell-async-processp
! 	(progn
! 	  (process-send-eof ispell-process)
! 	  (if (eq (ispell-process-status) 'run)
! 	      (ispell-accept-output 1))
! 	  (if (eq (ispell-process-status) 'run)
! 	      (kill-process ispell-process))
! 	  (while (not (or (eq (ispell-process-status) 'exit)
! 			  (eq (ispell-process-status) 'signal)))
! 	    (sleep-for 0.25)))
        ;; synchronous processes
        (ispell-send-string "\n")		; make sure side effects occurred.
        (kill-buffer ispell-output-buffer)
--- 2572,2578 ----
        (or no-error
  	  (error "There is no ispell process running!"))
      (if ispell-async-processp
! 	(delete-process ispell-process)
        ;; synchronous processes
        (ispell-send-string "\n")		; make sure side effects occurred.
        (kill-buffer ispell-output-buffer)

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-- 
 |      Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac   |   All your base are belong to us.      |
 |         Epita/LRDE Promo 2007   |     You have no change to survive      |
 | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m   |        make your time, hahaha.         |
 `--  -   JID: micha@amessage.be --'        -- Zero Wings              -  --'

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Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Michaël Cadilhac]

[-- Attachment #1.1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1792 bytes --]

michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes:

> michael.cadilhac@lrde.org (Michaël Cadilhac) writes:
>
>> storm@cua.dk (Kim F. Storm) writes:
>>
>>> Reiner Steib <reinersteib+gmane@imap.cc> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> recently some people (Stefan, Kim) reformatted my ChangeLog entries.
>>>> My `fill-column' in ChangeLog buffers if 74 which is the default from
>>>> `change-log-mode'[1].  Am I missing some coding convention for Emacs
>>>> ChangeLog files?
>>>
>>> I don't recall when this started, but we now allow max 79 characters
>>> per line in Emacs ChangeLog files (I see a few lines of 80 chars,
>>> but I'm not sure that is really ok).
>>>
>>> IMO, we should have a file-local setting to reflect this.
>>
>>   BTW, what is the rational of setting `fill-column' to 74 ?
>>
>>   AFAIK, such a `fill-column' was used  only in mails or news to allow
>>   easy replies under 80 columns.
>>
>>   I don't see the point here, any clue ?
>
>     Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79 in
>     add-log.el ?
>
>     Making this  customizable is probably  not a good solution,  as we
>     should  then,  for  the  sake  of  consistency,  set  left-margin,
>     tab-width, ... to be customizable too.
>
>     Patch attached, if needed.
>
> Index: lisp/ChangeLog

> Index: lisp/add-log.el

> Index: lisp/textmodes/ispell.el

  Of course, the last one has nothing to do with the topic. Sorry.

-- 
 |      Michaël `Micha' Cadilhac   |   Pour les 35-40 ans, l'humour         |
 |         Epita/LRDE Promo 2007   |        c'est une plus-value.           |
 | http://www.lrde.org/~cadilh_m   |           -- Guillaume L.              |
 `--  -   JID: micha@amessage.be --'                                   -  --'

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Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Robert J. Chassell]

    ... such a `fill-column' was used only in mails or news to allow
    easy replies under 80 columns.

    >   I don't see the point here, any clue ?

        Nobody ? If there's no rational, why not put this limit to 79
        in add-log.el ?

There is at least one rationale besides the 500 year old one having to
do with the abilities or inabilities of your and my eyes -- even with
lots of interline spacing, a long line makes it hard to discover the
beginning of the next line.

Besides that rationale, the problem that effects me is most frequently
-- more frequently than I like -- is that some one quotes an item in a
message to my friend Joe and he quotes it in a message to me.  Quotes
are supposed to reflect what the original writer said and not be
corrupted by filling or anything like that (although they often are).

I hate to say it, but you really do not want a fill-column of more
than 72.  70 is the standard based on regular computer monitors.
Printed books usually display less inter-line spacing and shorter
lines.

(The convention is `twice the length of an alphabet plus major
punctuation'.  For English, that produces a line 60 or 61 characters
wide, depending on whether you consider a hyphen to be `major
punctuation'.  When you have more interline white space, as computer
displays do, then you can have more characters on a line.)

-- 
    Robert J. Chassell                         
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Kim F. Storm]

"Robert J. Chassell" <bob@rattlesnake.com> writes:

> There is at least one rationale besides the 500 year old one having to
> do with the abilities or inabilities of your and my eyes -- even with
> lots of interline spacing, a long line makes it hard to discover the
> beginning of the next line.

ChangeLogs have 8 chars of indentation on every line, so they can be longer
than normal.  Also, detecting the next line is typically not a problem
in change logs as continued lines are quite rare - and they _don't_ start
with a left parenthesis.

>
> Besides that rationale, the problem that effects me is most frequently
> -- more frequently than I like -- is that some one quotes an item in a
> message to my friend Joe and he quotes it in a message to me.  Quotes
> are supposed to reflect what the original writer said and not be
> corrupted by filling or anything like that (although they often are).
>

How often do you qoute and re-quote a ChangeLog entry?

> I hate to say it, but you really do not want a fill-column of more
> than 72.  70 is the standard based on regular computer monitors.
> Printed books usually display less inter-line spacing and shorter
> lines.

With 8 chars indentation, fill-column = 72 + 8 = 80 should be ok then?

Anyways, we have used 79 chars for ages now, so the question is not
whether it makes sense, but how to enforce that policy.

Doing it in add-log means that it applies to non-emacs change logs too.
Doing it in emacs' own change logs applies to emacs only, so it will
not interfere with other projects.

So should we change the default fill-column for everybody, or just
for emacs?

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Robert J. Chassell]

   ChangeLogs have 8 chars of indentation on every line, so they can be longer
   than normal.

You mean, after one quoting, they are indented 12 spaces?  That
distance tells me a ChangeLog is special.  Presumably, it does not to
you.

   Doing it in add-log means that it applies to non-emacs change logs too.
   Doing it in emacs' own change logs applies to emacs only, so it will
   not interfere with other projects.

Well, since I changed the default fill-column for 10 or 15 years
(until I decided that Emacs' shorter default made more sense), all I
can say is that you can change the default, too.  It is a suggestion
-- and in my opinion, a very good suggestion for things read on
computer monitors.  (As far as I am concerned, a shorter line length
does make sense for books printed without much interline space.)

--
    Robert J. Chassell
    bob@rattlesnake.com                         GnuPG Key ID: 004B4AC8
    http://www.rattlesnake.com                  http://www.teak.cc

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Richard Stallman]

The reason for shorter lines is that they are easier to read.
I'd rather not change this.

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Kim F. Storm]

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

> The reason for shorter lines is that they are easier to read.
> I'd rather not change this.

But as I said in another mail, lines in ChangeLogs are already shorter
because they are indented by 8 chars -- so setting fill-column to 79
for change logs does not make the lines harder to read than the usual
72 char text lines.

-- 
Kim F. Storm <storm@cua.dk> http://www.cua.dk

Re: ChangeLog conventions: fill-column

[Richard Stallman]

I think the current width of 74 is good.  However, I am not going to
insist.