From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel,gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs Subject: Re: 23.0.60; Defaut encoding for XML files should be undefined (instead of utf-8) Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:26:57 +0900 Message-ID: <87ablyye32.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87odaifv16.fsf@mundaneum.com> <87r6fd5q12.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <47B6B3CC.1080101@gnu.org> <87wsp5xhz4.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <47B6D1ED.6020601@gmail.com> <87r6fcxms7.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <47B8452F.6090504@gmail.com> <87odafxluc.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bq6fnrpt.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <87hcg7xh2h.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1203315619 13166 80.91.229.12 (18 Feb 2008 06:20:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2008 06:20:19 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org, "Lennart Borgman \(gmail\)" , Edward O'Connor , Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Miles Bader Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Feb 18 07:20:42 2008 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1JQzMn-00023l-Ea for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 07:20:41 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JQzMI-0001ol-KJ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:10 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JQzMC-0001ny-O6 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:04 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1JQzMA-0001nm-3c for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:03 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1JQzM9-0001nj-Uh for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:01 -0500 Original-Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([140.186.70.10]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQzM9-0000d9-SX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:02 -0500 Original-Received: from mx10.gnu.org ([199.232.76.166]) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.67) (envelope-from ) id 1JQzM9-0003t4-E8 for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:01 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQzM6-0000c5-Ez for emacs-pretest-bug@gnu.org; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:20:01 -0500 Original-Received: from mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1JQzM5-0000bV-Q6; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 01:19:58 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps02.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25B88001; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:19:55 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 725281A29E5; Mon, 18 Feb 2008 15:26:58 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM 7.17 under 21.5 (beta28) "fuki" 42711a251efd XEmacs Lucid X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-detected-kernel: by monty-python.gnu.org: Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:89444 gmane.emacs.pretest.bugs:21186 Archived-At: Miles Bader writes: > "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > > What's ungraceful about C-x C-s responding with > > Warning: This XML document does not seem to conform to XML > > charset declaration rules. Would you like to > > (1) add an XML processor instruction (coding cookie) > > (2) link to a parent document which specifies the encoding > > (3) create a dummy parent document (available only to your sessions) > > (4) save as is in the [buffer-file-coding-system] encoding? > > The discussion is about what to do when visiting a file, not saving > it. Do the same thing at visit time by default. It's not like the implementation would differ, it's just it would be a post-visit hook instead of a pre-save hook. > [Whether the above sort of "extreme nannying" "Extreme nannying"? It's just an extension of the idea of providing a document skeleton for a single file to multi-file documents. > knowing Emacs, users, it seems a good bet some would chaff > at the presumption.] Let them chafe, and provide some lotion in the form of configurability for those who know what they're doing and why. But here, we're talking about defaults. > For visiting, I rather like what I suggested earlier, changing Emacs' > format-specific-coding mechanisms to support format-specific coding > _preferences_ as well as "absolute codings". IMO, users who know enough about coding systems and the various formats to use such a facility would be just as happy to use `file-coding-system-alist'. Learning about it will be a burden for the "naive" users who want things to "just work". And maintaining a database of defaults will be a burden on maintainers disproportionate to the benefit. Also, I appealed to PSGML and AUCTeX for a reason. There are many cases now where multi-file documents are the norm. I think that not only DTP files, but also multi-file source programs could benefit from these techniques, over and above what we get from tag tables already. As users get used to thinking of it as a general facility rather than a property of just one mode, they'll generate neat ideas about what to do with it.