From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Miles Bader Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Scrollbar thumbs Date: Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:31:42 +0900 Message-ID: <87aaz0sdch.fsf@catnip.gol.com> References: <03A2EC54153A4BB1AAE5AF2D2E2B7264@editkapc> <87aaz3jgkp.fsf@catnip.gol.com> <4AF1D60C.6080005@swipnet.se> <87skctklaz.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> <4AF36607.50508@gnu.org> Reply-To: Miles Bader NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1257467638 30434 80.91.229.12 (6 Nov 2009 00:33:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2009 00:33:58 +0000 (UTC) Cc: David Kastrup , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Jason Rumney Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Nov 06 01:33:51 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1N6CkG-00027c-0K for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 01:32:04 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:34896 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6CkF-0008LI-BQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:32:03 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6Ck7-0008Ha-TG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:31:56 -0500 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1N6Ck1-0008DT-V2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:31:53 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=33325 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1N6Ck1-0008DQ-Lp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:31:49 -0500 Original-Received: from smtp12.dentaku.gol.com ([203.216.5.74]:55764) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS-1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1N6Cjx-0002V7-Fa; Thu, 05 Nov 2009 19:31:45 -0500 Original-Received: from 218.231.174.56.eo.eaccess.ne.jp ([218.231.174.56] helo=catnip.gol.com) by smtp12.dentaku.gol.com with esmtpa (Dentaku) id 1N6Cjv-0001TH-3B; Fri, 06 Nov 2009 09:31:43 +0900 Original-Received: by catnip.gol.com (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 28EAEDF8C; Fri, 6 Nov 2009 09:31:42 +0900 (JST) System-Type: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <4AF36607.50508@gnu.org> (Jason Rumney's message of "Fri, 06 Nov 2009 07:55:51 +0800") Original-Lines: 29 X-Virus-Scanned: ClamAV GOL (outbound) X-Abuse-Complaints: abuse@gol.com X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:116669 Archived-At: Jason Rumney writes: > Even Emacs 19 had line wrapping, so counting CR characters as the file > is read (as some simple text editors do) has never been the solution to > this problem. The only solution seems to be to render the entire buffer > offscreen in background Yes. In other words, a complete (and _massive_ in terms of code) change in Emacs' internal model, to one which is more complex (lots of caching) and hugely impractical for very large files. The toolkit change, by contrast, is apparently quite small, and would simply make the toolkit allow more application flexibility. No existing GTK apps would be affected. AFAICT, the only reason GTK _hasn't_ changed is because of a dogmatic refusal to believe any model except their own is valid. Even if every Emacs author suddenly decided they _wanted_ to rewrite Emacs to accommodate GTK, it wouldn't happen, simply because it's not even remotely practical. But as I understand it, GTK could easily change given a decision to allow it. I think GTK is in general, a pretty nice toolkit, but not every application is exactly The Gimp, and this sort of head-in-the-sand behavior is very disheartening. -Miles -- Year, n. A period of three hundred and sixty-five disappointments.