From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: David Kastrup Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: redisplay system of emacs Date: Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:45:20 +0100 Organization: Organization?!? Message-ID: <87aavq43in.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> References: <4B633B7C.8030700@gmx.de> <873a1nvlki.fsf@gmail.com> <4B65B180.5010202@gmx.de> <87ock8pb21.fsf@xemacs.org> <874olzowzq.fsf@xemacs.org> <87pr4m2ptm.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1265219197 17333 80.91.229.12 (3 Feb 2010 17:46:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 17:46:37 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Wed Feb 03 18:46:34 2010 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NcjIu-00079m-CO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:46:16 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:37040 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NcjIt-0003ES-Ta for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:46:15 -0500 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1NcjIp-0003Dt-Ld for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:46:11 -0500 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=60960 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1NcjIp-0003Dc-Bi for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:46:11 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by monty-python.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NcjIn-0003WF-UR for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:46:11 -0500 Original-Received: from lo.gmane.org ([80.91.229.12]:34455) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1NcjIn-0003WB-Dp for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:46:09 -0500 Original-Received: from list by lo.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1NcjIP-0006ZI-47 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:45:45 +0100 Original-Received: from p5b2c2965.dip.t-dialin.net ([91.44.41.101]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:45:45 +0100 Original-Received: from dak by p5b2c2965.dip.t-dialin.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 03 Feb 2010 18:45:45 +0100 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Original-Lines: 33 Original-X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org X-Gmane-NNTP-Posting-Host: p5b2c2965.dip.t-dialin.net X-Face: 2FEFf>]>q>2iw=B6, xrUubRI>pR&Ml9=ao@P@i)L:\urd*t9M~y1^:+Y]'C0~{mAl`oQuAl \!3KEIp?*w`|bL5qr,H)LFO6Q=qx~iH4DN; i"; /yuIsqbLLCh/!U#X[S~(5eZ41to5f%E@'ELIi$t^ Vc\LWP@J5p^rst0+('>Er0=^1{]M9!p?&:\z]|;&=NP3AhB!B_bi^]Pfkw User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.90 (gnu/linux) Cancel-Lock: sha1:RKp2iLqSVyCnyrEW2M25pE7CFNM= X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 3) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:120866 Archived-At: "Stephen J. Turnbull" writes: > I disagree that it's non-judgmental. Preserving ecosystems is a > positive value. No, it isn't. Underdeveloped countries have a stable ecosystem of enough people dying early due to scarcity of resources that population is maintained. Or at least they had until their land became "owned" and the flow of money meant that it was more effective to starve them completely and use the land for producing lifestock fodder for the countries delivering the guns to the "land owners". Preserving the preexisting ecosystem would not have been a positive value. A positive value would have been giving (rather than taking) them the means to improve their manner of living. There are complex and stable ecosystems with parasites passing through a multiple number of hosts in their development. Preserving those is not a positive value. Proprietary software has its own ecosystems. Preserving those is not the aim of the FSF and others. And free software also has its ecosystems. Not all of that which happens in those systems is desirable. But that does not mean that the term is inappropriate to describe phenomena which are not planned, but make for dynamics beyond the individual control of the software creators. -- David Kastrup