From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Drew Adams Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Exposing Isearch toggleable options Date: Sun, 1 Nov 2015 16:20:56 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <87aa94f6-345b-4339-a444-6f3e712f00c5@default> References: <87611q7c3f.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <877fm5tefl.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <87wpu3x4p4.fsf@mail.linkov.net> <1bb5e765-6599-4076-b9c7-11b416a48db7@default> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1446423692 19758 80.91.229.3 (2 Nov 2015 00:21:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 2 Nov 2015 00:21:32 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Juri Linkov , emacs-devel To: bruce.connor.am@gmail.com Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Mon Nov 02 01:21:20 2015 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Zt2sA-0006hf-Vc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 02 Nov 2015 01:21:19 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:39432 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zt2sA-0001EK-EO for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:21:18 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53082) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zt2rx-0001E4-C2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:21:06 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zt2rt-0003Xn-Dc for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:21:05 -0500 Original-Received: from aserp1040.oracle.com ([141.146.126.69]:19465) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Zt2rt-0003Xg-7F for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 01 Nov 2015 19:21:01 -0500 Original-Received: from userv0022.oracle.com (userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74]) by aserp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.3.2) with ESMTP id tA20KwVx020911 (version=TLSv1 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Mon, 2 Nov 2015 00:20:59 GMT Original-Received: from userv0121.oracle.com (userv0121.oracle.com [156.151.31.72]) by userv0022.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tA20Kwot029449 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 2 Nov 2015 00:20:58 GMT Original-Received: from abhmp0008.oracle.com (abhmp0008.oracle.com [141.146.116.14]) by userv0121.oracle.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id tA20KvoK008895; Mon, 2 Nov 2015 00:20:57 GMT In-Reply-To: X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Oracle Beehive Extensions for Outlook 2.0.1.9 (901082) [OL 12.0.6691.5000 (x86)] X-Source-IP: userv0022.oracle.com [156.151.31.74] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 141.146.126.69 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:193089 Archived-At: > I should have explained more. I don't mean it would be good to merge > isearch's customization group with the help buffer. > I just meant we could add a few checkboxes to that buffer. For > instance, currently the help for isearch has a paragraph like this: >=20 > Type M-s c to toggle search case-sensitivity. > Type M-s i to toggle search in invisible text. > Type M-s r to toggle regular-expression mode. > Type M-s w to toggle word mode. > Type M-s _ to toggle symbol mode. > Type M-s ' to toggle character folding. >=20 > Adding a single checkbox to the end (or start) of each line would be > nice (and it isn't what I'd call a "widget-filled" buffer). > Or we could replace that paragraph with something like this (where [] > denotes a checkbox) >=20 > Search options | Toggle key > --------------------------------------------------- > [] case-sensitive | M-s c > [] inside invisible text | M-s i > [] regular-expression | M-s r > [] word mode | M-s w > [] symbol mode | M-s _ > [] character folding | M-s ' >=20 > (let's not nitpick on the format here, I'm just suggesting how the > options could be made toggleable) I still disagree, but I've already said most of what I think about this. I prefer to see *Help* provide help as information, and not try to get into the business of becoming a clickable dialog box that effects actions. *Help* can tell users about keys for toggling options; provide links to customize things; and inform users about menus that, among other things, can provide toggle items (with check boxes). I'd sooner see usera use the same ways to toggle Isearch states: keys, Customize, and (why not?) an Isearch menu-bar menu. Just as we have a temporary Minibuf menu for the minibuffer, so we can have an Isearch menu, with as many actions on it as you like, and grouped into submenus if that makes sense. New users are used to menus, and menus can be quite helpful for discovery (one of the topics skirted in this thread). Some Emacs users are used to Customize as well. (And yes, we _should_ guide users to Customize, more generally, IMO.) And all Emacs users will expect *Help* to (1) provide info about commands, keys, and features; to (2) guide them to more, linked help; and to (3) guide them to the manual. That's not to say that Emacs can never change to add checkboxes or whatever here or there. But I would prefer that we start by sticking with, and leveraging, the usual Emacs ways of offering such things: (a) keys, menus, and Customize, to act, and (b) help and manuals to inform. The mode-line is a limited space where, like menus, we have sometimes combined information with ways to act. In menus, actions predominate; in the mode-line, info predominates. But *Help* has so far pretty much been limited, in terms of actions, to following links. I suggest we start by (1) doing _without_ sticking checkboxes into *Help*, and (2) adding a useful Isearch menu (which includes option toggles as some of its items). Just one opinion.