unofficial mirror of emacs-devel@gnu.org 
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: Eric Schulte <eric.schulte@gmx.com>
To: rms@gnu.org
Cc: nix@esperi.org.uk, egnartsms@gmail.com,
	lennart.borgman@gmail.com, Emacs-devel@gnu.org,
	Tom Tromey <tromey@redhat.com>,
	monnier@iro.umontreal.ca, dancol@dancol.org,
	drew.adams@oracle.com
Subject: Re: CL package serious deficiencies
Date: Thu, 09 Feb 2012 07:23:00 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87aa4skmm1.fsf@gmx.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: E1RvNW2-0006EZ-Pf@fencepost.gnu.org

Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org> writes:

>     RMS> * CL is ugly.  It is not well integrated with the rest of Emacs Lisp.
>
>     The second part seems to me to be a circular argument.  It could be
>     better integrated; but it will not be as long as it is not acceptable.
>
> Maybe we are miscommunicating.  The ugliness I am talking about is in
> the specs of these functions, not the implementation.  The specs of
> the CL functions don't fit in well with Emacs Lisp.  This isn't
> something that could be fixed with more work on the code.

Ugliness is a more normative than descriptive word.

I assume you are referring the use of keyword arguments in the CL
functions, as (to my knowledge) keyword arguments were consciously
excluded from elisp and are not used elsewhere.

Assuming the above is correct and there are to be no keyword arguments
in core elisp functions, then Emacs is in an undesirable position in
which core functionality (e.g., `reduce' and `remove-if') is not
provided by default, and the common names for such functionality is
reserved for functions which will never be included in the core, so it
doesn't seem likely that acceptable versions of such functions could
ever be included into elisp.

-- 
Eric Schulte
http://cs.unm.edu/~eschulte/



  reply	other threads:[~2012-02-09 14:23 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-02-06 14:18 CL package serious deficiencies egnarts-ms
2012-02-06 21:08 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-06 21:53   ` Drew Adams
2012-02-07  3:02     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-07 12:04       ` egnarts-ms
2012-02-07 17:36         ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08 13:15           ` egnarts-ms
2012-02-08 19:07             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-07 12:29     ` egnarts-ms
2012-02-07 18:43     ` Nix
2012-02-07 19:11       ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-07 19:15         ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-02-07 20:54           ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-07 21:03         ` John Wiegley
2012-02-07 21:06         ` Nix
2012-02-07 21:08           ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-07 21:10             ` Nix
2012-02-07 21:12               ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-07 21:23                 ` Nix
2012-02-07 21:29                   ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-07 21:30                     ` Nix
2012-02-07 21:32                   ` Glenn Morris
2012-02-07 21:34                   ` Daniel Colascione
2012-02-07 21:42                     ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-08  1:53                       ` Leo
2012-02-07 22:16                     ` Alan Mackenzie
2012-02-07 22:19                       ` Nix
2012-02-08 13:28                     ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-08 15:00                       ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-09  6:29                         ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-09 14:23                           ` Eric Schulte [this message]
2012-02-10 15:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-10 18:36                               ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-10 15:52                             ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-10 16:23                               ` Drew Adams
2012-02-10 16:42                               ` Ted Zlatanov
2012-02-09  6:30                         ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-09 13:56                           ` Ted Zlatanov
2012-02-10 15:44                             ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-10 18:34                               ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-10 15:48                           ` Tom Tromey
2012-02-10 18:29                             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08  2:07                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-02-07 22:41               ` Glenn Morris
2012-02-07 23:10                 ` Nix
2012-02-08 13:42                   ` Eric Schulte
2012-02-08 13:46                     ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08 13:51                       ` Eric Schulte
2012-02-08 15:29                         ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08 15:39                           ` Eric Schulte
2012-02-08 15:43                             ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08 14:26                     ` Drew Adams
2012-02-08 13:15         ` Teemu Likonen
2012-02-09  7:33           ` spam- or registry-related things in Gnus need cl at run-time? (was: CL package serious deficiencies) Reiner Steib
2012-02-09 16:39             ` spam- or registry-related things in Gnus need cl at run-time? Teemu Likonen
2012-02-07 23:48       ` CL package serious deficiencies Stefan Monnier
2012-02-07 23:52         ` Nix
2012-02-08  0:10           ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08  0:15             ` Nix
2012-02-08  1:51               ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08 23:43                 ` Nix
2012-02-09 21:34                   ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08  2:13           ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-02-08  2:19             ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08  4:23               ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2012-02-08 11:00                 ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08 17:42           ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-08 19:54             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08  0:38         ` Daniel Colascione
2012-02-08  1:32           ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08  1:53           ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-08  2:26             ` Daniel Colascione
2012-02-08 22:28       ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-02-08 22:32         ` Lennart Borgman
2012-02-08 23:35         ` Nix
2012-02-09 19:42           ` Richard Stallman
2012-02-09 19:46             ` Nix
2012-02-10  1:09         ` John Wiegley
2012-02-10 14:38         ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-10 15:08           ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-02-10 15:35             ` Drew Adams
2012-02-10 18:15               ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-10 18:21                 ` Drew Adams
2012-02-10 15:24           ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-02-10 18:24             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-10 18:26               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-02-10 18:47               ` Johan Bockgård
2012-02-10 17:12           ` Helmut Eller
2012-02-10 18:51             ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-10 18:55               ` Lars Ingebrigtsen
2012-02-10 19:08               ` Teemu Likonen
2012-02-11 13:25                 ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-02-11 16:56                   ` Johan Bockgård
2012-02-11 22:33                     ` Juanma Barranquero
2012-02-12  4:41                 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-12 15:53                   ` Teemu Likonen
2012-02-12 16:52                     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-12 16:55                     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-10 23:56               ` Helmut Eller
2012-02-12  4:47                 ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-12 17:39                   ` Helmut Eller
2012-02-12 18:15                     ` Stefan Monnier
2012-02-12 18:58                       ` Helmut Eller
2012-02-19 12:52         ` Dimitri Fontaine

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posting_style#Interleaved_style

  List information: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87aa4skmm1.fsf@gmx.com \
    --to=eric.schulte@gmx.com \
    --cc=Emacs-devel@gnu.org \
    --cc=dancol@dancol.org \
    --cc=drew.adams@oracle.com \
    --cc=egnartsms@gmail.com \
    --cc=lennart.borgman@gmail.com \
    --cc=monnier@iro.umontreal.ca \
    --cc=nix@esperi.org.uk \
    --cc=rms@gnu.org \
    --cc=tromey@redhat.com \
    /path/to/YOUR_REPLY

  https://kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/git-send-email.html

* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox

	https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git

This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).