From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: security of the emacs package system, elpa, melpa and marmalade Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:10:33 +0900 Message-ID: <87a9iy2106.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <523FEE1B.9020408@binary-island.eu> <52429ABD.6090603@binary-island.eu> <52432BE9.1070402@binary-island.eu> <87d2nw1j3b.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <5243F828.6060901@binary-island.eu> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1380265862 6674 80.91.229.3 (27 Sep 2013 07:11:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 07:11:02 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Stefan Monnier , emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Matthias Dahl Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Fri Sep 27 09:11:04 2013 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1VPSCa-00021q-FZ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:11:00 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:33403 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPSCa-0002qL-1Q for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 03:11:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:44082) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPSCP-0002qD-Uz for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 03:10:57 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPSCI-0008Pb-Mn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 03:10:49 -0400 Original-Received: from mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.224]:56036) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1VPSCI-0008OC-BC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 03:10:42 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mgmt2.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEB4D9709A0; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:10:33 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 81F941A27EF; Fri, 27 Sep 2013 16:10:33 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <5243F828.6060901@binary-island.eu> X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta32) "habanero" b0d40183ac79 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.224 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:163672 Archived-At: Matthias Dahl writes: > > Then your model of security is inadequate. Software is *inherently* > > insecure. > > Agreed. But if someone says there are security leaks all over the > place, I didn't read Stefan as saying "leaks", I read him as saying "Emacs is not designed to be your security nanny." > that is a different story. This implies those are tolerated for > various reasons. Well, sure. A concrete block is inherently more secure against an earthquake than a building. That doesn't mean we should replace the latter with the former. > But they do exist and should be fixed, nevertheless. And they are fixed, frequently. For example, "safe" and "risky" local variables. > Agreed. But this doesn't imply that the user should be powerless against > each and every plugin he installs. One can assume that the Emacs code > base does not contain any malicious code and is thus "secure" at least > in this regard. I gather you haven't read Ken Thompson's ACM address recently. > Right now there is absolutely nothing stopping a hacked plugin to do > just about anything until the community or the user somehow notices > this. Sure. But the problem of making a sandbox is very hard. Python gave up. Maybe the Emacs people are smarter, but the Python developers aren't dumb. > And what would you suggest in terms of ELPA / Marmalade and MELPA and > the package system in general based on this...? If you care, don't use them. On my exposed system, I don't install any XEmacs packages that I don't absolutely need.