From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: ludo@gnu.org (Ludovic =?utf-8?Q?Court=C3=A8s?=) Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:20 +0100 Message-ID: <87a92u86wv.fsf@gnu.org> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87388mme16.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418316837 30077 80.91.229.3 (11 Dec 2014 16:53:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2014 16:53:57 +0000 (UTC) Cc: esr@thyrsus.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Thu Dec 11 17:53:50 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz6zr-0004pW-Om for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:47 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:52468 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz6zr-0007oo-Eq for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:53:47 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46734) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz6zY-0007jf-6z for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:53:32 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz6zT-0005zG-Gd for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:53:28 -0500 Original-Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([2a01:474::1]:45933) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Xz6zS-0005xe-VG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 11:53:23 -0500 Original-Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7A954221; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:20 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from hera.aquilenet.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (hera.aquilenet.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lU3xJ61k+7oJ; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:20 +0100 (CET) Original-Received: from pluto (pluto.bordeaux.inria.fr [193.50.110.57]) by hera.aquilenet.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id AE08E2901; Thu, 11 Dec 2014 17:53:20 +0100 (CET) X-URL: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ X-Revolutionary-Date: 21 Frimaire an 223 de la =?utf-8?Q?R=C3=A9volution?= X-PGP-Key-ID: 0xEA52ECF4 X-PGP-Key: http://www.fdn.fr/~lcourtes/ludovic.asc X-PGP-Fingerprint: 83C4 F8E5 10A3 3B4C 5BEA D15D 77DD 95E2 EA52 ECF4 X-OS: x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu In-Reply-To: <87388mme16.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> (Phillip Lord's message of "Thu, 11 Dec 2014 14:55:49 +0000") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/24.4 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2a01:474::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179796 Archived-At: phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) skribis: > Ludovic Court=C3=A8s writes: >> GNU has a culture of high-quality documentation. Texinfo is a tool for >> that, providing features like indexes, cross-manual references, >> documentation-oriented markup, and several output media. AFAIK, neither >> AsciiDoc nor =E2=80=9Cheavier=E2=80=9D options like DocBook support all = of that. > > Asiidoc does do indexes, as does docbook. And, yes, multiple output > formats. Seriously, almost everything does multiple output formats. OK. What about documentation-oriented markup (think @deffn, @deftp) and cross-manual references? They don=E2=80=99t do that, do they? >> Info browsers make it easy to browse manuals, search for index terms, >> follow links, including to other manuals. A Web browser cannot achieve >> that because a Web browser is not designed for that. > > Web pages and browsers can do anything at all. Here is a webpage which bo= ots > so linux and runs some of GNU I=E2=80=99ve heard of JavaScript, thank you ;-), but I=E2=80=99d rather (1)= run code that=E2=80=99s hosted locally, and (2) be able to use a JS-less browser if I have to use a browser at all (I think it=E2=80=99s fair to assume that some Emacs users would rather use emacs-w3m or eww.) >> "Eric S. Raymond" skribis: >> >>> I have discussed this with RMS and, pending my ability to actually write >>> proper translation tools, we have agreed on asciidoc as a new master=20 >>> format. >> >> That=E2=80=99s a discussion that would need to involve all of GNU, not j= ust >> Emacs circles. I don=E2=80=99t see how that change could happen. > > Not really. Someone has to try it first. The problem is that GNU manuals refer to each other, and Texinfo nodes are part of their public interface, in a way. Leaving out cross-manual refs would be a big loss for GNU as a project to develop a coherent system, because manuals would be left isolated. To me, if replacing Texinfo and/or Info results in loss of functionality at all, that=E2=80=99s a showstopper. I=E2=80=99m surprised alternative sy= stems are not studied with that in mind. Thanks, Ludo=E2=80=99.