Re: Issues with quail.el

[handa@gnu.org (K. Handa)]

In article <20180519120124.ee4bompnunw2gxuv@isis.luna>, Amit Ramon <amit.ramon@riseup.net> writes:

> There are still some slight issued, for example the quail's definition
> of the standard keyboard layout is based on VT100 layout, which is
> different in some minor aspects from a standard PC keyboard (e.g. the
> location of the tilde key), but this is not related to the problem
> this patch fixes.

When I first wrote that part (looong ago), we were using Unix (not
GNU/Linux) on workstations (not PC).  At that time, the choice of VT100
as the starndard layout was, I thought, not that bad.

>>> > What I get for the second letter (TET, ט) is:
> >
>>> >    ט can't be input by the current input method
> >
>>> I confimed this bug, but it seems that fixing take more time.   Please wait.
> >
> >Here's the patch to fix it.  Could you please try it?

> I tested this patch with the configurations mentioned above (after
> fixing the cdr/car typo mentioned by Filipp Gunbin in a different mail
> in this thread) and, again, it fixes the problem.

Thank you for testing it.  I'll commit that patch soon.

> There are still some issued that are, perhaps, related to a broader
> question, I'll try to describe them briefly here, but I think they
> should not stop us from applying your fixes.

> 1. Key sequences

> Lets assume I'm using a Dvorak keyboard layout and a Hebrew input
> method. This input method include some key sequences for typing some
> special Hebrew signs. For example, for inputting HEBREW PUNCTUATION
> MAQAF (־), one has to type q-p. When the keyboard layout is standard,
> there is no problem. When it is Dvorak, C-h I still says you have to
> type q-p, and it works if you press the keys that are q-p in the
> standard layout, but since I use Dvoark it is (for me) '-l. Here comes
> the question of what the input method really wants -- to keep the
> actual location of the keys you need to type a sequence constant, or
> that the constant should be the keys themselves (i.e., their meaning).

At first, there's something wrong in the docstring of Hebrew.  It says:
------------------------------------------------------------
 'q' is used to switch levels instead of Alt-Gr.
 Maqaaf (־) is mapped to '/פ'.
------------------------------------------------------------
Why does it say "mapped to '/פ'"?  Shouldn't it be "mapped to 'qp'"? 
[I included yair.f.lists@gmail.com in CC: because it seems that this
part is added by him].

Anyway, to make that part shown correctly in *Help* buffer for Dvorak
users, we need a new mechanism to convert "qp" to "-l".  One idea is to
introduce a new notation, something like "\[q]" and modify
quail-help to convert it to the key on the current layout.

Here, I have a question.  I think 'q' of 'qp' is selected because a user
won't have to insert "q" while typing Hebrew.  But, is it ok to use "/"
for that kind of prefix key?

The following section in *Help* buffer can be fixed rather easily...
============================================================
KEY SEQUENCE
------------
You can also input more characters by the following key sequences:
key char  [type a key sequence to insert the corresponding character]
--- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ---- --- ----
q"  ״	 q0  ׁ	  q4  ִ	   q8  ָ	    q\	ֻ     qh	 ײ    qw  ׳
[...]
============================================================
because the table is generated by a program.  Perhaps, we should fix
quail-insert-decode-map.

> 2. Shifted keys

> This is somewhat similar to the above. If (Hebrew + Dvorak layout) I
> ask quail-show-key to tell what to type for inputting Z, it tells me
> "To input 'Z', just type it".

> But (again, Hebrew input method is active) this is not really true
> since my keyboard layout is Dvorak -- to enter Z in Hebrew input
> method I need to press Shift-;, since the key that has ; in Dvorak is
> the z key in the standard layout.

This part should also be fixed.

> These are, maybe, questions of semantics and context -- when one say
> that I have to type q-p (to get HEBREW MAQAF), is it in the context of
> my real keyboard (then it is not true for Dvoark), or is it in the
> context of a standard keyboard (and then it is confusing people who're
> using, say, a Dvorak keyboard).

As I wrote above, 'qp' should be converted to '-l' in *Help* buffer.

> P.s. Handa san, I have some technical questions and, perhaps, some
> suggestions for simplifying some parts of quail.el (assuming I'm
> not completely misunderstanding it) -- would you be interested to
> hear? If so, shall I post my questions in this thread or, perhaps,
> send them directly to you?

Could you post to emacs-devel with a new proper subject?

---
K. Handa
handa@gnu.org