From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!.POSTED!not-for-mail From: hw Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: delete-selection-mode as default Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:48:10 +0200 Organization: my virtual residence Message-ID: <87a7oh4mdm.fsf@toy.adminart.net> References: <83k1nxvm5j.fsf@gnu.org> <87sh2ih0bp.fsf@fastmail.fm> <770f48a8-664a-40ae-8e03-19f6aad248b6@default> <20180910181615.GA4829@ACM> <874lev3bq4.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180912131602.GA5582@ACM> <87d0tihxzw.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180913174640.GB4019@ACM> <8736udkuit.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <20180914104833.GA4103@ACM> <83k1nojgia.fsf@gnu.org> <874leq799e.fsf@toy.adminart.net> <205df9be-2e5c-4cc4-a13a-7c80eb63bedc@default> <87in363zgq.fsf@toy.adminart.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blaine.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: blaine.gmane.org 1537105781 6074 195.159.176.226 (16 Sep 2018 13:49:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@blaine.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2018 13:49:41 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: spacibba@aol.com, joostkremers@fastmail.fm, npostavs@gmail.com, emacs-devel@gnu.org, Yuri Khan , acm@muc.de, Eli Zaretskii , phillip.lord@russet.org.uk To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 16 15:49:36 2018 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by blaine.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XQb-0001Oz-O7 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:49:34 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:59141 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSi-0001pV-9g for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:44 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46519) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSP-0001pL-BM for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:26 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSO-0003Cu-Ez for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mo6-p01-ob.smtp.rzone.de ([2a01:238:20a:202:5301::1]:19745) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XSM-0003Ab-UW; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 09:51:23 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1537105881; s=strato-dkim-0002; d=adminart.net; h=References:Message-ID:Date:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From: X-RZG-CLASS-ID:X-RZG-AUTH:From:Subject:Sender; bh=fQ1qcYRYcpWJOx4TuhtApalS/zqejD2I3PayUJlClFE=; b=C5FurFnHIqePUtW4+94hj8zOcXDQUX1deJ9Yo3qG3QmSFF0zi0TOeuwRWT6nSxMfb6 PqU/I4KH01s/E+tJnt+AZL/efJcWVwvSpDXOWi1vEAfO1V0Dav91tZIkJwJ2JqnBAe+T v8CLcXmokDZ5ftlFgN1k0TIEsQK0Roo0Y+tO0nyiupM+506p7GEkTErUEneQkYZItqpQ MghfG01BAf0yRf6ImLN3WtynwEONETNY3XkoaUZzuZxBFpNg7G4NdwJEUJ4adkAAJ5/z dzPrLIYWrz61DajR9l2OPwmtSK7FPj9hhzWs6ZNLHHjHfTyefds9SsHpH8jUmN3RTpGL N5yg== X-RZG-AUTH: ":O2kGeEG7b/pS1FS4THaxjVF9w0vVgfQ9xGcjwO5WMRo5c+h5ceMqQWZ3yrBp+AVdIIwXjneEe9k=" X-RZG-CLASS-ID: mo00 Original-Received: from himinbjorg.adminart.net by smtp.strato.de (RZmta 44.1 DYNA|AUTH) with ESMTPSA id 20bdb7u8GDp36a0 (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (curve secp521r1 with 521 ECDH bits, eq. 15360 bits RSA)) (Client did not present a certificate); Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:51:03 +0200 (CEST) Original-Received: from toy.adminart.net ([192.168.3.55]) by himinbjorg.adminart.net with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1g1XS3-0001js-1z; Sun, 16 Sep 2018 15:51:03 +0200 In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 15 Sep 2018 20:34:12 -0700 (PDT)") X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] X-Received-From: 2a01:238:20a:202:5301::1 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.21 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:229843 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: >> So there are a few things to note: >> >> + start and end marker of a selection do not need to be visible >> + the selection is entirely independent from navigation >> + the selection is persistent >> + the start marker is being remembered after the selection has been used >> + I can move, type and edit normally without endangering the selection >> as if it wasn't there > > Dunno what you mean by the 4th one. (Perhaps you mean that > you can navigate back to it?) It means it is much like the mark in Emacs in that is being remembered, but without dragging the region about all the time. You can navigate with both marks. > But all of the others, at least, are true of the secondary selection. > That's why I said that I think the sec. sel. is the closest thing > Emacs has that corresponds to the behavior you expect. > >> The cursor is always visible in joe. That doesn't mean that a selection >> can not be persistent or that its end must always be visible. This is >> an Emacs problem because sticking to "the region" makes Emacs >> inflexible. > > I meant that Emacs always has point as one end of the region, > and because (like editors typically) the cursor is always visible > on the screen, so the point end of the region is always on > screen. > > There is no association between the secondary selection and > point, so the entire sec. sel. can move off screen. And it is > "persistent" in the sense I think you mean (as opposed persisting > across Emacs sessions). Oh, I see what you mean! Emacs has point and (the end of) the region (selection) always entangled with no way to separate them or to disable the region. That is what I dislike so much, and it causes all kinds of issues. The secondary selection doesn't have all these problems, so it's a good example. Can we have a mode or something in which there is no association between point and the end of the region? Or can I just configure that association away?