From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: [External] : Re: indent-tabs-mode default [was: Representation of the Emacs userbase on emacs-devel] Date: Sun, 05 Sep 2021 08:37:18 +0800 Message-ID: <87a6krg8n5.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <874kb1gjxs.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r1e4fueq.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="23435"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: Stefan Kangas , "philipk@posteo.net" , "danflscr@gmail.com" , "rms@gnu.org" , "emacs-devel@gnu.org" , "monnier@iro.umontreal.ca" , Dmitry Gutov , Eli Zaretskii , "john@yates-sheets.org" To: Drew Adams Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Sep 05 02:38:07 2021 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1mMgAh-0005vB-6j for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; 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Sun, 5 Sep 2021 00:37:25 +0000 Original-Received: by kubenode518.mail-prod1.omega.sg3.yahoo.com (VZM Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 8208b7224ca93bf1df91e2f3f65326e1; Sun, 05 Sep 2021 00:37:22 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: (Drew Adams's message of "Sat, 4 Sep 2021 14:44:59 +0000") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18924 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.188.148; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic303-22.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:273973 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > In my post that started this thread about > `indent-tabs-mode' default value, I said this: > > It's easy enough for some local use (e.g. > following the standards of some organization) > to customize the option to ON. But that > should no longer be the default, IMO. > > Does that not apply to your context? It doesn't, for reasons explained below. > Not only an individual, but an organization > can have a need for either no-tabs, all-tabs, > or a mixture. That is (should be, IIUC) easy > to do, no? > > Likewise, for use in any particular context > (e.g. project, directory, etc.). > > The default value for _Emacs itself_ is what > the current question is about. It of course > needs to be easy for anyone and any group to > set the setting they need, for any context. The problem is that we have been relying on Emacs' defaults for a very long time. In fact, `indent-tabs-mode' has defaulted to t for as long as I can remember -- it was that way in Emacs 18 and Epoch. > There's `site-lisp.el'. There are individual > `custom.el' or init files. There are mode > hooks. There are (probably - not familiar) > project-wide hooks or settings via `project.el' > or Projectile or whatever. I don't use project.el or projectile, for the simple reason that I've never needed to use them. I don't think it would be simple to get my organization to provide standard site init files or even dir-locals. They would rather have us switch to NetBeans. > Yes, if the Emacs default changed you or your > organization/project/site might need to add > a setting for it. And if it doesn't change, all this trouble will have been avoided beforehand.