From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Lars Ingebrigtsen Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:11:08 +0200 Message-ID: <87a67xlm9v.fsf@gnus.org> References: <87ilmlluxq.fsf.ref@yahoo.com> <87ilmlluxq.fsf@yahoo.com> <87h725olz1.fsf@gnus.org> <87zgfxn6lt.fsf@gnus.org> <87tu65k9ec.fsf@yahoo.com> <87r119lnsd.fsf@gnus.org> <87mtbxlnf1.fsf@gnus.org> <87czctk890.fsf@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="5268"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: Po Lu Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sun Aug 21 16:12:05 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlgJ-0001DA-F5 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:12:03 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:43514 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlgG-00083H-Tn for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 10:12:00 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:48750) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlfY-0007N1-7R for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 10:11:16 -0400 Original-Received: from quimby.gnus.org ([2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2]:60786) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlfW-0007Mg-Oq for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 10:11:15 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnus.org; s=20200322; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date:References: In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=qdQp73T7lY49DySG7uy6e7gtOxg1uGKDY0dmXMlmAek=; b=ef9ayr5E7HtsIgu27Xzg430bgf zdBcKHrp18qNpDOhxy+upKGAwiL6Yfi0LVnRM1uRlmK2y0m16Cj03kgHZgXHO+NIch3ZhDVRFjAVx u/dH1cQYc8NTbLRG6K6u0CggfXxNDLo6Bikl1fgHaSD0E2HV/90th1svT5S0bX0TdnnA=; Original-Received: from [84.212.220.105] (helo=joga) by quimby.gnus.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.3:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oPlfR-0002iK-E8; Sun, 21 Aug 2022 16:11:11 +0200 In-Reply-To: <87czctk890.fsf@yahoo.com> (Po Lu's message of "Sun, 21 Aug 2022 21:59:23 +0800") Face: iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAADAAAAAwBAMAAAClLOS0AAAABGdBTUEAALGPC/xhBQAAACBj SFJNAAB6JgAAgIQAAPoAAACA6AAAdTAAAOpgAAA6mAAAF3CculE8AAAAGFBMVEX6+/idqqxlf40l LzQGCAvR2tU9SlD////IlMs7AAAAAWJLR0QHFmGI6wAAAAd0SU1FB+YIExUXBogYobcAAAGkSURB VDjLldTBcoIwEAbgjU48I4JnCdAHcFPuiuUctPFcB8v7P0L/RBRQOtNmOPGxu8kmgUhsKCSi+WE8 iGbGPRNwJBLBFCzJZZsG6UEXWg8h76BqiqbVYzAx0aLE+6IcwMbOAku0apm5aK49BEJaB+41cw/S 1FJZEmfmuOaCuypM0ibSCIoQYE3KXa6SMSX0Y0ZHQJikXNwi+ODfY/WyQYRd3QE1hCEDQN2LrdfM TQ8yR3sx2bdL+AQGgFS8TdNxKgK44tvlEPB9DIgQ0caP6ToIpCJFwoWofoGAjbAg1xI3dN+SQCw9 +Ca2oyZeBGBRubbzoO2xCI7J5EZJ8vCytUlMKu8PA+vSTwGLy4VKJk6JVEmolHkFqzCSDvbRobru sndMmgy+V/cjuj8BPm6AVGpzP9T7OtpHgMiBr9DBbv25i7oIhOQ0Cd34G+gBnH4BmfZw/R5C5qf7 D6BonKodwyOi1PdMT4BUIa6Zu7anHjIPscQlx3G8reM8d/CV+eLCPz5V1TTVtdJV15JlHBrKXn4A uDbor0gngLAhx6kIiUOinuEHOKPTFAdetPIAAAAldEVYdGRhdGU6Y3JlYXRlADIwMjItMDgtMTlU MjE6MjM6MDUrMDA6MDCsK0cnAAAAJXRFWHRkYXRlOm1vZGlmeQAyMDIyLTA4LTE5VDIxOjIzOjA1 KzAwOjAw3Xb/mwAAAABJRU5ErkJggg== X-Now-Playing: Hilt's _Get Stuck_: "Liquid Sole Shoe" Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a01:4f9:2b:f0f::2; envelope-from=larsi@gnus.org; helo=quimby.gnus.org X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293719 Archived-At: Po Lu writes: [Problems with Gtk snipped -- I agree that all of those things are bad.] > I think the reason users use the GTK build despite those problems is > because it is the default, and they don't know any better. Most users don't choose the toolkits -- they use whatever the distribution has configured. And since most of those use a variation on Gnome Shell, it's natural for the distributions to use the Gtk toolkit for Emacs. But, yes, most people who build Emacs themselves end up using the Gtk toolkit for two reasons: It's the default, and the no-toolkit one is ugly and unusable (both in actuality and as a UX preference for most normal people). >> But without the 1-5) I outlined, I don't think there's any chance >> what-so-ever. > > Were they fine with the Lucid build before the GTK build became the > default? Did the distributions exist before Gtk? I haven't tried the Lucid build in a while, and it fixes the menu scaling (and font) issues. Otherwise, it has all the same problems that the no-toolkit version has.