From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Po Lu Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Abysmal state of GTK build Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2022 09:45:17 +0800 Message-ID: <87a67u5s9e.fsf@yahoo.com> References: <8735dn30if.fsf@gmail.com> <87pmgr8m3t.fsf@yahoo.com> <83pmgr88sk.fsf@gnu.org> <87sfln6t3p.fsf@yahoo.com> <83ilmj873l.fsf@gnu.org> <8735dn6rp7.fsf@yahoo.com> <87edx7hu15.fsf@telefonica.net> <83y1vf6ixp.fsf@gnu.org> <87zgfuhpz8.fsf@telefonica.net> <83o7wa7v6g.fsf@gnu.org> <87r116h7a9.fsf@telefonica.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24473"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/28.0.91 (gnu/linux) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: =?utf-8?Q?=C3=93scar?= Fuentes Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Wed Aug 24 03:46:49 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1oQfTk-0006AT-8u for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 03:46:48 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:41992 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQfTi-0000nD-P2 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 21:46:46 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56844) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQfSU-0008B0-HT for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 21:45:32 -0400 Original-Received: from sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com ([66.163.184.199]:36881) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oQfSS-0006Oj-N2 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Tue, 23 Aug 2022 21:45:30 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661305525; bh=YJcVOtde2f6v8++bcMY5Jipj3zkz0BvrXs860Ga8wfM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Reply-To; b=npxIJ3Z7FK+8kTImjp9r8P58lcprdOgJlAdLJoiM6dXoUPbZuiRavzd0VOb1JYj7+NW6xLxr++jOq/AJfoJLeDLe2W+jOfkOgB0AX6UlFbz7mY4t5eaepf466m1CSa+qWgczlyaQ9tgJbrgrLwyBW1LJsgga1uvcFu++A36sv6k1iezqsFQRdlaYv+N68zUd/tS7acYaEV8AX8yXMoaooxKpQ3/wHBYDIOH1wfgyXOH8k6ImNZ9dx+NDwRxBCoWiB4kt608oh3yBHIBaMXxkA7rKUXYHh4ixaem6Gowh93GeLnD5vElkmlhwvij/sbXVhtLQRQXEEaLLxni/Lyhs/A== X-SONIC-DKIM-SIGN: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s2048; t=1661305525; bh=aBLqNg9zAFJ29OJpIBa8VX6tsttt8vxV63s+J2C9s0o=; h=X-Sonic-MF:From:To:Subject:Date:From:Subject; b=tK667xQwhwTcyjhkFPLdhjHP+q5YLr5CMEB8EjlsllAzDjmczUygIrOCrimSPHKTAUU22j4WgSGbeW0qVxmFSVR+f0zIqnwkjGUJUwl1U8F5ZKrHQgFpij3aTHggAeNZs+SaBJMCZRzzG/pp2NWIreqycvERQ82wMETSIj9Dr/qM1hjXGk+i/IhRIMdCRac88SNMW879P6xLad585KgmbXgIe9yAUYnc+JH7d0ZsWH/ZpcFxs/aV1mlsd5QGJmrq1PRn4pIqfHaxXaDVZqugqaAIErtq69bc835FqLbRlNoJVNCYCGGHOs73AdhsvXVCI14MK720UCyUk8ADMfqJEg== X-YMail-OSG: NO5KVy0VM1m8WVoHDCn0hTHM2437sZxolMUenBddojrxepe6nTe5CsSq4GJ0SiR ZPGo6_vC5kNJ1b7eZyX5cUxSfhVO_wngMV3a5TP4xopnYL1a6zUrMGSO.EhEkADfUFGY7kz2KYHN 5VS.MxGZ7WPQjF0CojcYy1u2Qbn1qQMbBufXe1NR9ADSKwo9tdJG.z3whorpXRnxwT3ZIufWdoBz 3OqhAySmN.pmMWcf0wc.cglD1BzYHyyr60ToCDmcnsBegIVeeTz0w2vYweo9VskqHf7fet3SxBlV EmDDdD_e0aw3Fqd2SKcl8nHXyj4sykUBWQmGoOwonohy9mFlO.AXYCJL6RcpWI7KtI_t3BkC7ZIh nPKJxL3PC0Ok9MjKyKiyKXAkTLmbeTPpE.agBm703ZieK9ZnVIWpVayZFGFsGs6DoDkMnDGGYrtr pRkdRJw8YvJqXbeK61_Bx7uNnE5PcvNAbC2fZgCh0pJYtv1qO1AKYsPRB7.Utr3lON9g_hgQxtpx fBsZ4WY19FfZ40LLvtkv9Ze9gTqe0QvK2GGtE6zuI52DnWU0Ky0n3ewW5MVjEGqqQpckCohlUtm5 U0jMWSgUDTWZFGiVG0GgJWT9LzK8gQrkI9eW0pRXLoneKplGANLm7TaORrAGUp8JllaOkQYz7vsw S62Xl8mHcHmKY280y362U9H32p6z2J8RpcSdRMKMxAT_LSAuAK0i9IWxvLaE0XdgpbNhp3v7U8dS 9DndwOGSQbrcPaYsV_kW8ANqgzsvpn2vv3yj58vntXzF9diwjh7peIPUPSX_ZRbLiWCJbMjlI1xf 6rarfZJMf2KPgGv2x8T.O_yz0PvijysOxez3X.ZhhH X-Sonic-MF: Original-Received: from sonic.gate.mail.ne1.yahoo.com by sonic301.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com with HTTP; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:45:25 +0000 Original-Received: by hermes--canary-production-sg3-6f58cd9b5-jrp6f (Yahoo Inc. Hermes SMTP Server) with ESMTPA ID 5a41b2c9bdf916f08638eaa5be3962fe; Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:45:21 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <87r116h7a9.fsf@telefonica.net> (=?utf-8?Q?=22=C3=93scar?= Fuentes"'s message of "Wed, 24 Aug 2022 01:25:18 +0200") X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.20560 mail.backend.jedi.jws.acl:role.jedi.acl.token.atz.jws.hermes.yahoo Received-SPF: pass client-ip=66.163.184.199; envelope-from=luangruo@yahoo.com; helo=sonic301-30.consmr.mail.ne1.yahoo.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:293927 Archived-At: =C3=93scar Fuentes writes: > What I see on that Merge Request is an occasional contributor adding > code related to an internal, debug-related environment variable to avoid > its abuse and then making an insulting reference to the people who are > advicing others to incur on said abuse. Then another occasional > contributor comes to close the comments (good) with a blunt phrase > (bad). What abuse? And the change did not add code, it removed code to prevent users from customizing their own systems in a way that the GTK developers do not want. Even though it causes no problems, no bug reports, and in general no trouble at all for anyone, especially for someone who did not even write the GTK native dialog code. Stop making excuses for the blatant disrespect for users and developers carried by the GTK developers. Here's what the AUTHORS file says: The current team (GTK 3 and 4) ------------------------------ Jonas =C3=85dahl Tim B=C3=A4der Emmanuele Bassi Chun-wei Fan Matthias Clasen Carlos Garnacho Alexander Larsson Benjamin Otte Evidently, Benjamin Otte is not just an "occasional contributor". > Implying that that episode illustrates the general attitude of that > community and that it is relevant to how Emacs should decide its > relation to the products of such community is... unfair, to say it > politelly. Okay, then how about the many MANY times we went to them about the display disconnect problem, and were very impolitely rebuffed, with our use case(s) dismissed? Or recently: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/bug-gnu-emacs/2022-08/msg00687.html Where they made the ridiculous statement that it is unsafe for Emacs to auto-save data in Emacs core if the Wayland compositor shuts down.