From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Philip Kaludercic Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Progress on merging use-package? Date: Thu, 29 Sep 2022 08:36:18 +0000 Message-ID: <87a66izif1.fsf@posteo.net> References: <8735chq62g.fsf@gmail.com> <8735cgooen.fsf@posteo.net> <87y1u8q28v.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8pcu9g5.fsf@posteo.net> <87tu4wq1ju.fsf@gmail.com> <877d1scgyv.fsf@gmail.com> <87o7v37sqh.fsf@posteo.net> <83bkqyh9rl.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="24742"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" Cc: chad , emacs-devel@gnu.org, larsi@gnus.org, relekarpayas@gmail.com, jwiegley@gmail.com To: Eli Zaretskii Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Thu Sep 29 10:43:59 2022 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1odp9D-0006JH-8l for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 10:43:59 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:50148 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odp9B-0003C9-Pc for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 04:43:58 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:45012) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odp1y-0008IO-RC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 04:36:30 -0400 Original-Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:35973) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1odp1w-0007Zi-K4 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 04:36:30 -0400 Original-Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40EEC24002D for ; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 10:36:25 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1664440585; bh=ROym6Lr6ghgBy/AaDa85mgqFiKbMEvoVDZXThGc3+E8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Autocrypt:Date:From; b=BG1ldhWVALU7gumYzZMIizKMUOeeRDL+78zq80vljGVx4hDUo8hQzEHro0bG2yr1I SKw3oij2cWmQqRPqKBOFg6RNtLzx4zqZLwwkVbM/QCBjQeZWdwWYjLoxvVPY5Da7sx WCIRszIKVXf64D8Kh150TVqNHDWuTaf6dVkqONkg4d441I5s8EezMV/jrao9gpFmHZ +DNlEUDadtx7fTmOHD26b6lWL7daIB8XN+k1t2zbSjf+lzdNoSbnk8Qmd+Gqd1tNT5 f3Fd+u17SvZRL384Lg7Dg3k+1yO8CNQLNVu9mHU9c8u/4koo7FOlK7WyWEqzM6vYzV SGk2Lm996pHbg== Original-Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4MdRXl5wwbz9rxF; Thu, 29 Sep 2022 10:36:23 +0200 (CEST) In-Reply-To: <83bkqyh9rl.fsf@gnu.org> (Eli Zaretskii's message of "Thu, 29 Sep 2022 11:20:30 +0300") Autocrypt: addr=philipk@posteo.net; prefer-encrypt=nopreference; keydata= mDMEYHHqUhYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdAp3GdmYJ6tm5McweY6dEvIYIiry+Oz9rU4MH6NHWK0Ee0QlBo aWxpcCBLYWx1ZGVyY2ljIChnZW5lcmF0ZWQgYnkgYXV0b2NyeXB0LmVsKSA8cGhpbGlwa0Bwb3N0 ZW8ubmV0PoiQBBMWCAA4FiEEDM2H44ZoPt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwMFCwkIBwIGFQoJ CAsCBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQtVrAHPRh1FyTkgEAjlbGPxFchvMbxzAES3r8QLuZgCxeAXunM9gh io0ePtUBALVhh9G6wIoZhl0gUCbQpoN/UJHI08Gm1qDob5zDxnIHuDgEYHHqUhIKKwYBBAGXVQEF AQEHQNcRB+MUimTMqoxxMMUERpOR+Q4b1KgncDZkhrO2ql1tAwEIB4h4BBgWCAAgFiEEDM2H44Zo Pt9Ms0eHtVrAHPRh1FwFAmBx6lICGwwACgkQtVrAHPRh1Fw1JwD/Qo7kvtib8jy7puyWrSv0MeTS g8qIxgoRWJE/KKdkCLEA/jb9b9/g8nnX+UcwHf/4VfKsjExlnND3FrBviXUW6NcB Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=philipk@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: "Emacs-devel" Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:296453 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii writes: >> From: chad >> Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2022 18:57:26 -0400 >> Cc: Payas Relekar , John Wiegley , >> Philip Kaludercic >> >> Eli & Lars, as a point of clarification: what would you want to see in terms of integration into core for >> use-package to make the late-November cut for emacs 29.1? >> >> My understanding is that the copyright concerns are cleared, but John (Weigley, for anyone looking at this >> later) believes that some documentation work needs to be done. He doesn't have time to do it himself, but >> there do seem to be some potential volunteers (tentatively including myself). >> >> I expect that _eventually_ relatively deep documentation changes would be wanted if it were included in core >> (both to use-package and to emacs's existing documentation), but that it might be ok to include the package >> (with correct documentation) in 29.1 without necessarily pushing it throughout all of emacs' own >> documentation. Does that sound reasonable? > > I have difficulty answering these questions. I think we should hear > from John first, because he knows best what has to be done. I believe that Payas (<877d1scgyv.fsf@gmail.com>) gave a good summary of what is to be done: 1. Get use-package in ELPA Philip already has a patch ready to be reviewed 2. Complete all documentation Not sure what it means to 'complete', but I'll go through it, try to make it in more tutorial-esque. 3. Prepare documentation in texinfo Will cross that bridge when 2 is done. 4. Add all relevant files to emacs.git TBD when 3 is done. 5. Ensure everything loads properly TBD when 4 is done. This part will probably need testing from wider community, but its out enough in the future that I don't want to think about it right now. Step 1 has already been prepared, as Stefan has pushed a (disabled) package specification that can be enabled whenever it is decided to do so. As to step 2, I don't use use-package myself so it is difficult for me to say what is missing in the documentation, but apparently there are unfinished sections that need writing. Step 3 should be pretty easy, especially since the use-package repository already contains an auto-generated file that has to be cleaned up since the automatic translation from .org to .texi is known to be less than perfect (see <87o7v37sqh.fsf@posteo.net>). > Having a separate manual for use-package is fine if this is supposed > to be an optional package, not something used by core. But I admit > that I have no clear idea of the purpose of bundling use-package with > Emacs, so maybe what I say makes no sense. It is common to use `use-package' in such a way that a configuration can bootstrap itself. That is to say that when installing Emacs on a new device, all you need to do is to place your init.el in the right spot, and when Emacs is started the first time everything is installed and configured "automatically". Having `use-package' available OOTB (or at least on ELPA) would make this easier to do because you wouldn't have to add and configure MELPA. In my estimate, "use-package" is still one of the most popular packages that is not available from either GNU ELPA or NonGNU ELPA, so this move might help more people to be satisfied by the ELPAs. This in turn could help promote package stability, as more people move away from rolling release packages.