From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.io!.POSTED.blaine.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Emanuel Berg Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Lisp files that load cl-lib in problematical ways Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:07:42 +0200 Message-ID: <87a5s9ml6p.fsf@dataswamp.org> References: <835y38qvlg.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkcx6eci.fsf@dataswamp.org> <83ttqnm4ti.fsf@gnu.org> <83lebyu5yx.fsf@gnu.org> <4684f43123d7dee59461@heytings.org> <835y2xo1a5.fsf@gnu.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Injection-Info: ciao.gmane.io; posting-host="blaine.gmane.org:116.202.254.214"; logging-data="27364"; mail-complaints-to="usenet@ciao.gmane.io" User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Cancel-Lock: sha1:zIZTGj5Q6VHCOZdfawfCOwcmucQ= Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Tue Oct 24 04:24:02 2023 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([209.51.188.17]) by ciao.gmane.io with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1qv75O-0006uG-MQ for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; Tue, 24 Oct 2023 04:24:02 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1qv74p-0001CC-L5; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 22:23:27 -0400 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quwX3-0004F5-SC for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:07:53 -0400 Original-Received: from ciao.gmane.io ([116.202.254.214]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1quwX1-0005pa-VG for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 11:07:53 -0400 Original-Received: from list by ciao.gmane.io with local (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1quwWz-0005Jo-W7 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 23 Oct 2023 17:07:49 +0200 X-Injected-Via-Gmane: http://gmane.org/ Mail-Followup-To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Mail-Copies-To: never Received-SPF: pass client-ip=116.202.254.214; envelope-from=ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane-mx.org; helo=ciao.gmane.io X-Spam_score_int: -15 X-Spam_score: -1.6 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.25, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 23 Oct 2023 22:23:25 -0400 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.io gmane.emacs.devel:311738 Archived-At: Eli Zaretskii wrote: >> Pretty much everything loads cl-lib nowadays [...] > > That's not the issue, from my POV. the issue is whether all > these places load cl-lib for good reasons. If not, > they shouldn't. But as you say, this is nothing specific to cl-lib. Because without good reason, nothing should load anything. > Are any of these commands loading cl-lib without > a good reason? There is no way to tell without examining each case. And case here isn't a file but individual usage of whatever cl-lib provides. And, because cl-lib is just another Elisp library at the same level and status as any other, we might generalize the question from both ends, "Is any file loading anything without good reason?" If so - yes, we should fix that. And voilà, everyone agrees. -- underground experts united https://dataswamp.org/~incal