From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Drew Adams" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: Unuseful keybindings Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 14:46:59 -0800 Message-ID: <87AE81CEB91846DB94BC5F3B40C788DE@us.oracle.com> References: <87sj73qzvl.fsf@gmail.com> <87623zquvw.fsf@gmail.com><87ip7zdud3.fsf@gmail.com> <87ehiiu5x7.fsf@gnu.org><876A7D1112084247AE53F7EE42B4587C@us.oracle.com><80ehih3hlj.fsf@somewhere.org> <87pq21iwrw.fsf@yandex.ru> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1356216441 18244 80.91.229.3 (22 Dec 2012 22:47:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2012 22:47:21 +0000 (UTC) Cc: public-emacs-devel-mXXj517/zsQ@plane.gmane.org, emacs-devel@gnu.org To: "'Dmitry Gutov'" , "'Sebastien Vauban'" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 22 23:47:36 2012 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1TmXqx-0003e2-GW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 23:47:35 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:57668 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmXqj-0006tW-Kz for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:47:21 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([208.118.235.92]:41737) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmXqc-0006sX-4v for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:47:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmXqY-0001C5-Ev for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:47:14 -0500 Original-Received: from userp1040.oracle.com ([156.151.31.81]:21823) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1TmXqY-0001C1-8A for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 17:47:10 -0500 Original-Received: from acsinet22.oracle.com (acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238]) by userp1040.oracle.com (Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2/Sentrion-MTA-4.2.2) with ESMTP id qBMMl7i2029177 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=OK); Sat, 22 Dec 2012 22:47:08 GMT Original-Received: from acsmt356.oracle.com (acsmt356.oracle.com [141.146.40.156]) by acsinet22.oracle.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.14.4) with ESMTP id qBMMl76B019953 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Sat, 22 Dec 2012 22:47:07 GMT Original-Received: from abhmt111.oracle.com (abhmt111.oracle.com [141.146.116.63]) by acsmt356.oracle.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id qBMMl6bZ012439; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 16:47:06 -0600 Original-Received: from dradamslap1 (/71.202.147.44) by default (Oracle Beehive Gateway v4.0) with ESMTP ; Sat, 22 Dec 2012 14:47:06 -0800 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 In-Reply-To: <87pq21iwrw.fsf@yandex.ru> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 Thread-Index: Ac3gjhqbHIuBw21tQU6apEyZSpsFRwABZrtw X-Source-IP: acsinet22.oracle.com [141.146.126.238] X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.4.x-2.6.x [generic] X-Received-From: 156.151.31.81 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:155788 Archived-At: > Oh how I hate typing C-w in Firefox when trying to cut some > text from a form, and making the page disappear instead. Or > typing C-s and seeing the "save" dialog. I do like these > keybindings, though, so moving to cua-mode or etc is not > exactly an option. Me too. And I mentioned `C-w' for about the same reason as you. > I don't think I'm going to use the new binding much, but I > totally support moving toward compatibility with other > programs, at least where there are no pre-existing keybindings. So you buy the argument that if there is no default binding for some key (ANY key), and someone uses it conventionally outside Emacs (for ANYthing), then Emacs should hurry to get on board and have the same binding by default. Doesn't matter what the key is, other than it has no default binding? Doesn't matter what the conventional binding does, assuming it is an action that can be done in Emacs? So no need to discuss particular keys and actions any further - just bind them all following any conventions we can find outside Emacs? Emacs development deserves better. > I think the resistance here can be explained by the correlation > between people who like to keep their Emacs fullscreen and > people who try to do everything in Emacs, and so don't care > about other programs (and their keybindings) as much. You think wrong. At least regarding this person. My Emacs is as far from fullscreen as can be. And I definitely do not try to do everything in Emacs - I do almost nothing in Emacs. And I do care very much about other programs. And I use other programs and their keybindings all the time. And I too get bit by different bindings (but `f11' is not one of them!). What I am in favor of is for Emacs Dev to think. And discuss. And take seriously the different properties of particular keys and particular actions that keys might be bound to. In the context of Emacs.