From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: main.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.xemacs.design,gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: INFO on add-ons Date: Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:40:00 +0900 Organization: The XEmacs Project Sender: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org Message-ID: <878z2fq1rz.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <3D728E82.8000808@cox.net> <87ptvxxkoj.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fzwtxad9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <3D73F6D1.7010002@cox.net> <874rd7wuos.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <3D74D797.7000707@cox.net> <87bs7etocv.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <8765xlrvu9.fsf@tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: main.gmane.org 1031280026 4648 127.0.0.1 (6 Sep 2002 02:40:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@main.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 02:40:26 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, xemacs-design@xemacs.org Return-path: Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org ([207.96.1.200]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 17n92m-0001Cm-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 04:40:24 +0200 Original-Received: from gwyn.tux.org (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA12233; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 22:42:02 -0400 Original-Received: (from turnbull@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA12140 for xemacs-design-mailman@xemacs.org; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 22:41:07 -0400 Original-Received: (from mail@localhost) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) id WAA12136 for turnbull@tux.org; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 22:41:07 -0400 Original-Received: from tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.98.109]) by gwyn.tux.org (8.9.3/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAB12131 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 2002 22:41:06 -0400 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ident=steve) by tleepslib.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 17n92T-0002Sk-00 for ; Fri, 06 Sep 2002 11:40:05 +0900 Original-To: bob@rattlesnake.com In-Reply-To: ("Robert J. Chassell"'s message of "Thu, 5 Sep 2002 13:37:44 +0000 (UTC)") Original-Lines: 54 User-Agent: Gnus/5.090007 (Oort Gnus v0.07) XEmacs/21.4 (Informed Management, i686-pc-linux) X-Delivery-Agent: TMDA/0.61 X-XEmacs-List: design Errors-To: xemacs-design-admin@xemacs.org X-BeenThere: xemacs-design@xemacs.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.1 Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Post: List-Subscribe: , List-Id: Discussion of design and features for XEmacs. List-Unsubscribe: , Xref: main.gmane.org gmane.emacs.xemacs.design:1425 gmane.emacs.devel:7597 X-Report-Spam: http://spam.gmane.org/gmane.emacs.devel:7597 >>>>> "Robert" == Robert J Chassell writes: Robert> Currently you can run `texinfo-show-structure', but it Robert> does not work well with Outline mode. Would a combination Robert> do the job for you? No. First, I want to use third-party tools. XML tools are growing like a bamboo garden. Texinfo is at best a mature bonsai by comparison. Second, AFAICT texinfo doesn't care about the textual structure of a texi document. @node a, b, , top @menu * c * d @end menu @node c, d, , a @node d, , c, a @node b, , a, top and @node a, b, , top @menu * c * d @end menu @node b, , a, top <-- Node b jumps 2 places to Number Two on the Billboard Node Charts! Number Two, Two, Two.... @node c, d, , a @node d, , c, a are identical structures from the point of view of Texinfo. This means that the processor must know the semantics of the name, next, previous, and up attributes of a node to deduce what any XML processor "just knows". That means that every function I use must contain special code that knows about @node. Of course this is do-able, but why spend the effort when every DOM processor already knows how to manipulate these hierarchical structures? Furthermore, in general the structure of SAX parsers will give you the same result implicitly. (An actual structure editor would want DOM, of course.) Once again, not everybody needs this. I'm just explaining why I want this, and I don't know whether it would be worth converting to XML globally for Emacs or GNU. -- Institute of Policy and Planning Sciences http://turnbull.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp University of Tsukuba Tennodai 1-1-1 Tsukuba 305-8573 JAPAN My nostalgia for Icon makes me forget about any of the bad things. I don't have much nostalgia for Perl, so its faults I remember. Scott Gilbert c.l.py