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From: Paul R <paul.r.ml@gmail.com>
To: Ted Zlatanov <tzz@lifelogs.com>
Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org
Subject: Re: multi-threaded Emacs
Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:01:01 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878wqmcz9u.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86tz9asgdv.fsf@lifelogs.com> (Ted Zlatanov's message of "Thu, 11 Dec 2008 12:42:20 -0600")

SM> No, atomicity does not work that way, sadly.

Ted> "atomic" was a bad word choice on my part. I meant "safe to put in
Ted> an (atomically) body as you described it." I think if functions
Ted> A and B are safe, then any function C that only uses A and B is
Ted> safe too. Does that make more sense?

I guess Stefan means he wants a way to operate within a transaction, so
that the state of emacs (the state being defined by the all the values
of every variables accessible from the scope) is either changed exactly
as desired, or not touched at all.

If C is defined as "A then B" with A and B atomics, then if you run C,
and A is a success and B is a failure, then C won't have the 'atomic'
property, because C will exit with state half changed. Now if you totaly
avoid sequential execution (avoid the "imperative style"), so that you
construct C of B and B of A, indeed having A atomic is enought. But any
software, in particular emacs, is full of sequential processing with
intermediate states between instructions.

BTW, I'm not sure why stefan wants this atomic construction at the lisp
level, but for sure I would be amazed to see that !

-- 
  Paul




  reply	other threads:[~2008-12-11 19:01 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 89+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2008-11-29 13:32 multi-threaded Emacs Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-29 20:26 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-29 21:01   ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-29 22:21     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-30 11:35       ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-30 21:46         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-30 22:25           ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-30 23:03             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-30 23:30               ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-01  3:37                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-06 22:50           ` Tom Tromey
2008-12-07  3:31             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-29 22:06   ` Tom Tromey
2008-11-30 16:43 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-11-30 17:34   ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-30 21:51     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-30 22:10       ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-11-30 22:20     ` Miles Bader
2008-11-30 23:09       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-11-30 23:09       ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-01  0:10         ` Chetan Pandya
2008-12-01  3:55         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-01 14:06     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-01 18:57       ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-01 20:34         ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-01 22:41           ` joakim
2008-12-02 16:02         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-02 22:22           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-02 22:41             ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-03  2:17               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-03 18:26                 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-03 20:14                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-05  2:59                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-05  7:40                       ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-05  8:20                         ` Miles Bader
2008-12-05  9:42                           ` Paul R
2008-12-05 10:10                             ` Eli Zaretskii
2008-12-05 10:35                               ` Paul R
2008-12-05 11:02                           ` Helmut Eller
2008-12-05 15:39                             ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-05 16:22                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-12-05 16:57                             ` Tom Tromey
2008-12-06  4:41                               ` Miles Bader
2008-12-06  7:44                               ` Helmut Eller
2008-12-06 22:31                                 ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-06  8:30                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-05 15:36                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-06 19:25                         ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-06 22:41                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-06 23:41                             ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-07 20:51                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-07 23:51                                 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-08  3:06                                   ` Chetan Pandya
2008-12-08 15:50                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-07 16:02                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-07 20:52                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-07 16:15                           ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-08 18:26                             ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-08 19:49                               ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-09  2:15                                 ` dhruva
2008-12-09  2:49                                   ` Stephen J. Turnbull
2008-12-09  2:53                                     ` dhruva
2008-12-09  9:36                                     ` Andreas Schwab
2008-12-09 17:26                                 ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-09 19:10                                   ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-10 18:18                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-10 18:18                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-09 19:40                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-10 18:18                                     ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-11  1:59                                       ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-11 14:41                                         ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-12-11 18:30                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-11 18:42                                             ` Ted Zlatanov
2008-12-11 19:01                                               ` Paul R [this message]
2008-12-11 20:53                                               ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-12 19:03                                                 ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-13  3:08                                                   ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-11 19:07                                         ` Paul R
2008-12-11 20:54                                           ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-05  2:59                   ` Richard M Stallman
2008-12-05 15:40                     ` Stefan Monnier
2008-12-02 23:10             ` Florian Beck
2008-11-30 22:17   ` Miles Bader
2008-11-30 16:44 ` Richard M Stallman
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2008-12-03  7:59 Re[2]: " ak70
2008-12-04  8:45 ` Richard M Stallman
     [not found]   ` <87prk8mhg9.fsf@vanilla.net.mt>
     [not found]     ` <E1L8ZUB-0002x3-VT@fencepost.gnu.org>
2008-12-05 13:27       ` Li Lin
     [not found]         ` <87prk64ilv.fsf@vanilla.net.mt>
2008-12-05 18:37           ` Giuseppe Scrivano
2008-12-06 21:58             ` Magnus Henoch
2008-12-04 13:21 ` Stefan Monnier

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