From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: RE: eval-after-load not harmful after all (Was: Re: Why js-2mode?) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:43:15 +0900 Message-ID: <878whr9o4c.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <7b501d5c0908091634ndfba631vd9db6502db301097@mail.gmail.com> <998B83F771474211A37D1E2B6A497B61@us.oracle.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1249951392 8630 80.91.229.12 (11 Aug 2009 00:43:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 00:43:12 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org, 'Carsten Dominik' , 'Daniel Colascione' , 'Leo' , 'CHENG Gao' To: "Drew Adams" Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Tue Aug 11 02:43:04 2009 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1MafSB-0005V9-Ll for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:43:04 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:43021 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MafS8-0004dw-RV for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:43:00 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MafKM-0001qX-Ak for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:34:58 -0400 Original-Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1MafKG-0001oB-4Y for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:34:56 -0400 Original-Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=43348 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1MafKF-0001o8-U3 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:34:51 -0400 Original-Received: from mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.223]:45897) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1MafKF-0007XV-Ct for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:34:51 -0400 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) by mtps01.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id D16981535AC; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:34:48 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 530841A27DB; Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:43:16 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: <998B83F771474211A37D1E2B6A497B61@us.oracle.com> X-Mailer: VM 8.0.12-devo-585 under 21.5 (beta29) "garbanzo" 5bbff3553494+ XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by monty-python.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6, seldom 2.4 (older, 4) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:114007 Archived-At: Drew Adams writes: > In Icicles, I sometimes `require' other libraries explicitly. But in a few cases > I use `eval-after-load' instead - for exactly the kind of thing that Carsten > described. > > I agree with Daniel, Carsten, and others that `eval-after-load' should not be > demonized. I have no objection to use of `eval-after-load' in user or site files that are disabled by emacs -q. But `eval-after-load' in core files is like smoking in an elevator next to a pregnant woman. It's very convenient, maybe even "necessary", from the point of view of the user of the feature, but he doesn't bear the pain of debugging a Heisenbug that appears for the user of random-package-using-e-a-l. I note that all the advocates of e-a-l are package maintainers and UI types; all the deprecators are core. This is an inherent tension, and I think it should be resolved in favor of protecting the core.