From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: =?utf-8?B?xaB0xJtww6FuIE7Em21lYw==?= Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Why aren't there functions such as filter, take-while, etc. "by default"? Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:09:49 +0200 Message-ID: <878w8b9wn6.fsf@gmail.com> References: <87fx2j5wle.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Trace: dough.gmane.org 1272222631 18374 80.91.229.12 (25 Apr 2010 19:10:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@dough.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 19:10:31 +0000 (UTC) Cc: emacs-devel@gnu.org To: David Kastrup Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sun Apr 25 21:10:29 2010 connect(): No such file or directory Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([199.232.76.165]) by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O67Dm-0001x7-HA for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 21:10:26 +0200 Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:46123 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O67Dl-0006KH-MY for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:25 -0400 Original-Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1O67De-0006KA-Ju for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:18 -0400 Original-Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=47440 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1O67DZ-0006HF-DX for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:18 -0400 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O67DY-0004F4-Fn for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:13 -0400 Original-Received: from fg-out-1718.google.com ([72.14.220.154]:36272) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1O67DU-0004EC-Be; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 15:10:08 -0400 Original-Received: by fg-out-1718.google.com with SMTP id e21so344547fga.12 for ; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:10:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:received:received:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date:message-id:mime-version :content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CJ39jhhuJ8TB4P9jK8DVAxBJMCChcy+o3Seux0I3+N0=; b=ewTNaBgQp3AHFdFPIQRIcnN6hPEldMe6zEQIgWeDXhMmi8Xx04KcGWDC2q5CJLmPRI fWgo17ByiGJkkO2onhfIEFTg5g4K/KwmW56ugBMOvgUsDwidqVkExhiCfp2dHPgemcrQ QzTK2j+0IO/0I6Ht/f22sT2nte1CYjtdYs0qo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:user-agent:date :message-id:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=SmnF8SddGSXipkTD+l+4KTF0BD51Fmv7Z21Rpq2Y774OxeH3dO67EoKSvIuvTC/bD+ DaRMhTrfdxSYKhetP1uXMcSSFg/sDX/Io317sbkMhmj2nkh1/+qnoeGzDn9hFQKbR5dB KcNVw7sCJNJN4x79uHFRareMJprR1GuWGR9+o= Original-Received: by 10.87.50.37 with SMTP id c37mr5263645fgk.68.1272222558952; Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:09:18 -0700 (PDT) Original-Received: from localhost ([88.103.132.186]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id d4sm3861460fga.0.2010.04.25.12.09.17 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 25 Apr 2010 12:09:18 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <87fx2j5wle.fsf@lola.goethe.zz> (David Kastrup's message of "Sun, 25 Apr 2010 18:24:29 +0200") User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/23.1.91 (gnu/linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 2.6 (newer, 2) X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:124203 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > Deniz Dogan writes: > >> Why does it have to be so hard to write Emacs Lisp without requiring cl? >> >> Why aren't there functions such as filter (the equivalent of >> remove-if-not in cl-seq.el), take-while, reduce etc. "native" in >> Emacs? > > They make for no-surprise efficient programs primarily when the language > has lexical closures. What about `case', though? Or `position'? It's ridiculous -- you have to either define helpers again and again all the time, or write unnecessarily verbose code, or require the whole of cl (and I don't think `eval-when-compile' makes so much of a difference outside Emacs core; it's not like people compile all third-party packages they use). The Emacs cl.el "policy" seems rather schizophrenic to me -- if there's something unsatisfactory about it, then it should be fixed instead of being banished to compile-time-only. Or failing that, some generally useful forms like the above should be provided in Emacs core. =C5=A0t=C4=9Bp=C3=A1n