From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: Alexis Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 18:37:06 +1100 Message-ID: <878uic6kii.fsf@gmail.com> References: <20141205123549.GA29331@thyrsus.com> <87ppbqb6s1.fsf@gnu.org> <87h9x2f9me.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87a92uf8ik.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <8761dif6ib.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87k31xkue1.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87mw6tj8gp.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31xhqnq.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87vblgdiov.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1418458050 16370 80.91.229.3 (13 Dec 2014 08:07:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Dec 2014 08:07:30 +0000 (UTC) To: emacs-devel@gnu.org Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 13 09:07:23 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1XzhjX-00062D-EB for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 09:07:23 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:60567 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzhjW-0006zE-Mj for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 03:07:22 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:51446) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzhjO-0006z4-P5 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 03:07:20 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzhjJ-0005EB-Af for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 03:07:14 -0500 Original-Received: from mail-pa0-x232.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232]:47903) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XzhjJ-0005Dz-33 for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 03:07:09 -0500 Original-Received: by mail-pa0-f50.google.com with SMTP id bj1so8680698pad.37 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 00:07:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=references:from:to:subject:date:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :content-type; bh=CYd7hpaFXsKgLpLqW/wlqxLdbcdFShpq+0FuEfLDVak=; b=JPQXuoXqyxph3cEFZ3pJkvP3Kg6h1GBu9u8S5+KQ68QQ6XS5sOts6hm0zbyR7HCDaS Lyhd5/r9SQjN0pZ2825t2uBOiXSEQUdWMoQtYWnvUyHGa6oVn/j8Y0ArpO6nqlgys3im GekwSp4RizlcWtPxgrwdPnhiXrpxAuKzudIwfD4977TYwB2aKZrlpjxLHP4yKbKqPYfd 22linteP6XUrA3SnnkBRCJURwqKL7XUQPZOJTwjmM39a4dZQjjiEZD7ltj3xMvAUHj2O eZF0ReFUQkaHtP5AXXtcoGxJJz7i4j8Mu5a63pYXOC89Et+27avqRKM6P3pK3EUIdJG6 nUMw== X-Received: by 10.68.215.67 with SMTP id og3mr32728875pbc.117.1418458027626; Sat, 13 Dec 2014 00:07:07 -0800 (PST) Original-Received: from localhost (ppp118-209-40-19.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net. [118.209.40.19]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id wg7sm3482707pac.44.2014.12.13.00.07.05 for (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Sat, 13 Dec 2014 00:07:06 -0800 (PST) In-reply-to: <87vblgdiov.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: Error: Malformed IPv6 address (bad octet value). X-Received-From: 2607:f8b0:400e:c03::232 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:179979 Archived-At: David Kastrup writes: > phillip.lord@newcastle.ac.uk (Phillip Lord) writes: > >> I would agree with this. I am, of course, glad that Emacs doc has an >> index, but in general, indexes are disappearing from documentation, >> because it's just as easy to search and less effort for the authors. > > Just as easy to search? No. Less effort for the authors? Yes. Search > becomes fabulously useless where command names are built from common > words or get frequently referenced elsewhere. +10. Finding information in the Emacs and Emacs Lisp manuals via the index is a profoundly pleasant change from my typical documentation experiences. >From Emacs, i open the Emacs Lisp Reference Manual /within Emacs/, press 'i', type 'buffer', press RET, and am immediately taken to chapter 26, "Buffers". Now contrast that with opening the ELRM in Iceweasel, as a single page, and then using text search within that page. i use the KeySnail addon :-), so i press C-s and type 'buffer'. The first match is the link to chapter 19, "Minibuffers". The next match is in the summary description of that chapter, "Using the minibuffer to read input." It's the /third/ match that's the link to the "Buffers" chapter. The gains of manually-tweaked indexes over pure search might seem modest in this instance, but i've had experiences of trying to search through /long/ manpages for certain text using nothing but text matching, and compared to the experience of using the indexes of Emacs documentation, it's .... rather painful. For example, try accessing the documentation for the '-vo' option in the manpage for mplayer(1) .... So, no, i can't agree with the assertion that using search is necessarily just as easy for end users as using a well-maintained index. Alexis.