From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail From: "Stephen J. Turnbull" Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.devel Subject: Re: Have you all gone crazy? Was: On being web-friendly and why info must die Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 03:03:24 +0900 Message-ID: <878ui2ci6r.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> References: <87388bnzha.fsf@newcastle.ac.uk> <87k31mdbhe.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87tx0qiv45.fsf@fencepost.gnu.org> <87h9wqd3i5.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87fvcacs7k.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> <87bnmyclpk.fsf@uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp> NNTP-Posting-Host: plane.gmane.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1419098648 9284 80.91.229.3 (20 Dec 2014 18:04:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2014 18:04:08 +0000 (UTC) Cc: Phillip Lord , "Allen S. Rout" , David Kastrup , Emacs-Devel devel To: Lennart Borgman Original-X-From: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sat Dec 20 19:04:01 2014 Return-path: Envelope-to: ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org Original-Received: from lists.gnu.org ([208.118.235.17]) by plane.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ONk-0002fS-KW for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 19:04:00 +0100 Original-Received: from localhost ([::1]:35416 helo=lists.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ONj-0002Qu-T3 for ged-emacs-devel@m.gmane.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 13:03:59 -0500 Original-Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:34959) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ONS-0002GD-6X for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 13:03:48 -0500 Original-Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ONM-0007BT-9C for emacs-devel@gnu.org; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 13:03:42 -0500 Original-Received: from shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp ([130.158.97.161]:42473) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Y2ONF-00076j-Og; Sat, 20 Dec 2014 13:03:29 -0500 Original-Received: from uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp [130.158.99.156]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by shako.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0FDCD1C391F; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 03:03:25 +0900 (JST) Original-Received: by uwakimon.sk.tsukuba.ac.jp (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DF1F21A2CFC; Sun, 21 Dec 2014 03:03:24 +0900 (JST) In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: VM undefined under 21.5 (beta34) "kale" acf1c26e3019 XEmacs Lucid (x86_64-unknown-linux) X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: GNU/Linux 3.x X-Received-From: 130.158.97.161 X-BeenThere: emacs-devel@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.14 Precedence: list List-Id: "Emacs development discussions." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Original-Sender: emacs-devel-bounces+ged-emacs-devel=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.emacs.devel:180391 Archived-At: Lennart Borgman writes: > On Dec 20, 2014 5:47 PM, "Stephen J. Turnbull" wrote: > > If you say so, but a quick look at the current W3C recommendation for > > HTML5 doesn't reveal anything like standard AJAX events, just the > > now-ancient ones like onclick and so on. I don't think HTML5 has > > really changed anything in this respect: if you can do it with HTML5 > > you can do it with HTML4. > There is AddEventlistener, XMLHttpRequest, etc. Sure, but those are ancient Ecmascript and/or DOM features (XMLHttpRequest is about 10 years old), not something added in HTML5 vs. earlier versions of HTML.[1] As far as I can see, nothing has changed: if we want robust reliable operation of Emacs manuals in general purpose web browsers, we're going to want a well-tested, maintained package that takes care of error handling, network timeouts, and all those nitty-gritty details. I can just imagine what the Bright. Shiny. Things. crowd will do if Emacs publishes an HTMLized manual that tries to do AJAX and sucks at it: laugh their asses off, and then go hack on Battle for Wesnoth. With all due respect to your "I do this all the time" experience, I'll believe it's "good enough" when I see a pretty big chunk of an Emacs manual displayed in an implementation. Footnotes: [1] To be precise, HTML5 has made the DOM much more central to the specification, but all the same things would have worked in HTML4 and/or XHTML4.